my 12 year old DD and unwanted male attention

[crispandcheesesandwichplease]

I've posted before about my DD getting unwanted attention form adult men. She's 12, she's developing but doesn't wear make up or skimpy clothes. She doesn't look particularly older than she is.

Today we're down by the riverside having a picnic. She's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. We were sat reading and other people are around. A bloke, in his 40's I'd say, and 2 younger kids come and sit near us. The bloke immediately starts leering at my daughter. He sees me watching him look at her, I give him the Paddington bear hard stare. The kids he is with are messing about by the water and he's sorting them out with sun cream etc. He keeps looking over at my DD then at me, he knows I'm watching him.

After about 20 mins or so they gather their stuff to leave, he still keeps glancing at my daughter then at me. DD is oblivious to this, lost in her book. As they walk off I continue watching him, and he keeps turning round to look at my DD. Then, just before they disappear round the corner he turns to me and sticks his two fingers up at me!

Part of me was amused at his cheek but another part of me was furious. He was clearly letching at her and knew I'd clocked it, then he does that! What goes on in some men's head ffs???

The thing is this mAn has sons. His grotesque sexual values will be passed onto them. They will have to fight extremely hard against what their father has installed in them.

I wonder if these dodgy characters view young girls on the cusp of developing into women as easy targets who are less likely to call them out and answer back to their behaviour.
Between the ages of 12 and 16 I remember inexplicably getting masses of male attention. Lots of cat calls, horn beeps, whistles and being constantly harassed on public transport by older teenage boys and older men. It wasn't flattering, it was often quite scary and at some irrational level I think I thought it was my fault. I dressed in a childlike way in jeans and a t shirt most of the time. At one point I couldn't walk down the street without being hounded in some way.
As I got a bit older and perhaps looked a bit more self assured - even by my late teens - the harassment seemed to slow down.
It's terrifying to think what's going on in these men's heads though.

25bottles

The choice, for you as an individual is to try and change men's behaviour, single-handedly, at the age of 16. Or to say fuck 'em and protect yourself. It's sad but understandable

I also remember getting lots of attention in my early teens and I loved it 😳

Guinea I think you have a point.
If a man honked at me now I'd either give him a hard stare or swear at him.
Men must know this and are less likely to do it when they will be called on it. I'd also not hesitate to take a photo of a peeve and plaster it on social media with the hope of naming and shaming the fuckeit.

I am actually pretty shocked at this thread. I have honestly never noticed this with myself or my 3 teenage daughters.

I experienced this sort of thing a lot as a young girl. It probably started at around 12/13 and I didn't wear make up or skimpy clothing either and very much looked like the child I was. Much older men leering at me was the norm. My mum would occasionally witness this but never said anything to them, she didn't seem to see it as a problem at all so neither did I.

Luckily my much older brother did see a problem with it and when we was walking somewhere together when I was 13 and a bloke of about 23 looked me up and down and winked at me, he went fucking ballistic, almost gave the bloke a good kicking and told me that this behaviour wasn't right and I don't ever have to stand for that shit. I started calling blokes out on their behaviour from that moment on and wasn't afraid to tell them to fuck off.

I didn't fully realise until a few years ago just how common this sort of thing was for me and my friends. I could give maybe 20 or so examples of fully grown men making extremely inappropriate comments or asking for my phone number between the age of about 13-16 and that's not counting all the the leering, beeping car horns and whistling etc.

I'm not sure what I'm more horrified at, the amount of dodgy interactions with perverts I had or the fact that no adult except my brother seemed to care.

Dragonglass me neither

Seriously Dragonglass? That is great if so and genuinely gives me hope!

I wasn't so lucky as a child. I was about 12yrs and walking in to town to catch a bus to school by myself when a man smartly dressed in a suit greeted me as if he knew me and enquired after my parents. Sadly, at the same time as he was doing this, he was touching my breast area. I broke away from him and was very distressed. Happily, this incident occurred near a hospital and a paramedic on a break saw him, and comforted me, and she helped me find a policeman and we reported the incident. Not a pleasant experience.

Pan why do you persist in your 'the OP was victim blaming' whine? I wasn't, I explained my use of language, other people got my point. You seem very stuck on this point.

Alice, your brother sounds great - can we clone him? We need a few more of him around

Dragon, that's interesting - I'm wondering where you live, if I'm honest. If you say you never were leered at, hootted or shouted at from a car, told to 'smile' etc as a teen, I believe you, but it's the opposite of my experience.

Like a pp, at age 13,14,15, I could barely leave the house without it happening. Walking down the hill into town, always, always someone from a car would hoot or shout out the window. Or I'd walk past a man and they'd say something, try to chat to me. I was a child ffs. It's completely inappropriate. Perhaps it's where I grew up - a rather unsavoury town in North Kent.

I don't know if it is getting worse - it happened to me,my mum and my gran from around 11. I clearly remember being 12 and not wearing what a wanted (a kids t shirt but a little tight) because I didn't want to deal with the attention that would come with it. Makes me fucking furious now but then it was just the norm to me. I did learn to yell "fuck off, I'm 12!" But I really shouldn't have had to. Honestly I was pretty but I was also really obviously still a child.

I was taking my 13 year old Dd2 and 5 of her friends into Manchester as her birthday treat. Several middle aged men got on the train and one sat in the empty seat. He spread his legs very widely and proceeded to look at all of them. They were totally oblivious to his leering. But his mates knew. They kept saying to him to move and there's a seat free here. Thankfully it was only for two stops. I knew what he was doing and so did his friends. I gave him the hard stare too. YANBU OP and thanks for bringing this up. It has to stop and the onus is very much on men to stop it.

It's greatyou haven't Dragonglass. I wish more of us could say the same. I wonder though, if you've not noticed it yourself if you've had a conversation with your daughters about whether it happens to them when you're not there? It may be the subject has never arisen.

I ask because, as I mentioned upthread, sexual comments from strangers started for me at nine, and from eleven to fifteen it was pretty much constant, but I never mentioned it to my mother. I was ashamed, and also I thought it was something I just had to put up with.

It wasn't until I began working in sexual offence investigation that friends and family started talking to me openly about their experiences of sexual assault and harassment. And then I was amazed how many people wanted to talk to me about it. As though knowing I worked in the area lifted the taboo.

Hard stares don't really achieve anything though do they? You're still just sitting there passively saying nothing while some bloke is leering over your child.

I live in the Westcountry. Maybe I just walk around oblivious to everything.

My girls have never mentioned it and it's not something that I have thought to ask about, having not realised it is such an issue.

I wonder if the op would have thought it was 'leering' if a woman with her children kept looking over at her dd?
Why is leering the first assumption rather than she looked like someone he knew or he was interested in what she was reading? Was there drool? Was there obvious looking up and down?
I don't doubt that there are men out there who do leer at preteens but continuing to do it when the mother of said preteen is eyeballing them and they have their own kids with them doesn't seem the most likely scenario here.
If he knew you were watching him then he was obviously looking at you both and wondering what the fuck your game was

This happened to me quite a lot when I was a young teenager.

I remember my neighbour roaring at a bloke who had been eyeing me up "she's only 14!!" and telling him to GTF as he approached me.

A bus driver also nearly crashed his bus ogling me when i was in school uniform.

Makes me worry for DD growing up .

TheReal
I think that is spot on. That is what I meant,not to just smile and get on with it, but I would not presume leering,just maybe being trying to strike up conversation whilst kids played

Dragonglass great you live in a safe area - suggest you come up to London and travel by public transport - stay a little back from your teen girls and observe. Bet you a tenner you will be surprised at what you see! Sorry to post so gloomily about it but I was shocked initially too!

And I think people put their own spin on facial expressions. Read the threads on here about people giving them evils or looking at them with disgust when it seems highly unlikely they were doing anything of the sort. As soon as the op clocked the man looking at her dd she decided he was a perv and from then on any look he gave was going to be leery in her mind.
Obviously I wasn't there and it's entirely possible that the man is a paedophile. I think it's unfair to assume he is though.

I've noticed it alot too. There were two young girls (say 14/15) in bikinis at the swimming baths last week when I was there and the amount of men in their 30s/40s leering at them was gross. It made me really angry tbqh.

Daringdaschund
I live in london and never seen anyone leer at my dd 19 nor has she ever mentioned it
I agree with therealpootroll

Therealpootroll I am always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, but as has been mentioned before it happens when you are separated from your teen (say on busy public transport) and when you, as the adult, can observe dispassionately; not always in a situation where friendly overtures could be misinterpreted. And anyway, I believe the op ; it's happened to my teen too often now, and when you see it, you know it.

There also has to be taken in to consideration how observant we are just generally as humans. DH often walks around in an. Daze as he is always thinking about something. I'm an observant sort, it means I notice nice stuff as well but there is that to consider.