AIBU to think that the institution of marriage is fundamentally deceptive and dishonest?

[K00kie]

Precisely that. Because, at the time you are often under the influence of cortisol and other hormones that won't last - and therefore you're vulnerable - you are made to pledge your entire life to one person, to the exclusion of all others. Regardless of whom you might meet later in life, and regardless of how the person to whom you pledged your life might change with time and so bear little similarity to the person you married. It amounts to institutional misrepresentation.

One might say - it's easy to get a divorce these days, so why worry? But then why bother getting married in the first place if you can get easily divorced?

In fact, even that's not easy as the very sad recent case of Mrs Owens shows - a woman refused a divorce and ordered by ass of a law to remain in unhappy, loveless marriage because, apparently, unhappiness in marriage is to be expected and is no grounds for divorce. How many couples tying the knot are aware of this?!

How many of you can honestly say after 10, 15 or 20 years of marriage or so, that you'd have made the same choice of husband / wife as you did all these years ago? How many of you can say that you still love your husband / wife after all these years?

I see so many couples around me who are disillusioned with their marriages, that seeing wedding couples makes me sick inside.

Any views?

YABU.

Almost 20 years together and would absolutely make the same choice again. Yes, we have both changed over the years; but we have changed together. I can't imagine being with anyone else and love him more now that I did in the beginning. He is my favourite person in the world. Fortunately he feels the same about me!

"If people really knew what is involved in being married - all the hard work, compromise etc etc and all the other things mentioned in posts here - there would be way fewer marriages."

But how can they not know? Have they never read a novel? Have they never read a magazine? Have they never talked to other people or looked at the people around them? Whose responsibility is it to find out about those things if not that of the person planning to get married?

As for the Owens divorce case, yes I agree it is wrong. But what it absolutely does not mean is that anyone can force Mrs Owens to live trapped with her husband. She can separate from him and go off and live with somebody else or be single and absolutely nobody can stop her. She will technically be married, and she can't marry somebody else, but she emphatically cannot be forced to live with him. And after 5 years of separation, she will have the right to divorce.

I am very sorry for you OP and sad that you have such a distorted view of marriage. It is VVU to assume that your twisted view is the norm.

Nobody made me marry - I did it because I wanted to spend the rest of my life with someone I loved and I know he felt the same. That was 27 years ago and no regrets whatsoever for either of us. We made a commitment to each other and we both meant it. No matter how much shit life throws at us we stick together and make it work. My parents were married for over 40 years and My DH's parents the same. I think if you enter a marriage thinking there is a get out clause then you probably shouldn't be getting married. That is why 2nd and 3rd marriages are more likely to fail. Think about it ...

In the case of the unfortunate Mrs Owens, there are only really two reasons why she would need to be divorced now rather than wait for 5 years. The first is if she wants to get married to somebody else now. The second is in order to get the assets split up- and it may not be a coincidence here that her husband is a millionaire. But it is definitely not going to be about having to live with him: anyone can walk out on anyone else at any time and the law doesn't give a tiny shit.

YABU and i assume its because of personal bad experiences so
Some people do get married and actually dont regret it.

Im married but i knew and loved my husband for nearly 10 years before we married so i dont think you can blame it on cortisol!
Im very happy at the moment. And i dont really see any reason why that should change? Of course theres a chance it might, one of us may fall in love with someone else, we might grow apart...

But will i ever regret my marriage? No. Certainly not, because whatever happens i know we were in love and both of us meant it and will have tried our best. Our wedding day was amazing, i was over the moon!
Ive had some wonderful times with my husband and am proud to be his wife and hopefully that will continue.
Marriage isnt for everyone and sometimes it doesnt work out but sometimes it does!!! Id try and be happy for people whilst they are happy.

AIBU to think that the institution of marriage is fundamentally deceptive and dishonest?

YABU. There is nothing deceptive or dishonest about marriage. Its not the fault of marriage if people don't think beyond a big wedding, or aren't emotionally mature or assertive enough to go into an honest long term partnership.

This is the study that mentions stress hormones including cortisol;
neuro.hms.harvard.edu/harvard-mahoney-neuroscience-institute/brain-newsletter/and-brain-series/love-and-brain

It also states;
“A state-of-the-art investigation of love has confirmed for the very first time that people are not lying when they say that after 10 to 30 years of marriage they are still madly in love with their partners,” said Schwartz. In the Stony Brook study, he added, the MRI scans showed that the pattern of activity in the participants’ dopamine reward systems was the same as that detected in the brains of participants in early-stage romantic love.''

I had a day off on Wednesday the sun was shining, the birds were singing, I could have spent the morning in the garden or in the park, but I spent the morning riding a vintage bus and then going round a bus museum, why??? because it was my DH 68th Birthday and bored as I was it was making him happy after 45 years of marriage I still want to make him happy

I've been married for 23 years and yes, I would definitely make the same choice all over again. Dh is wonderful. Of course we've had some ups and downs, because relationships are like that, but we've got through them and we've always been kind and respectful towards one another. We've raised two children, one of which was seriously challenging in his teens and that tested our relationship, but we got through it.

Of course some marriages fail, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't get married.

Married 25 years here and no regrets

Of course it is important to consider what you are getting into though! I think that is a person's own responsibility, not that of "society".

In fact, even that's not easy as the very sad recent case of Mrs Owens shows - a woman refused a divorce and ordered by ass of a law to remain in unhappy, loveless marriage because, apparently, unhappiness in marriage is to be expected and is no grounds for divorce.

I am pretty sure she wasnt denied a divorce because the judge just didnt think she had to suck it up. The judge denied it because she cheated and then filed for divorce based on his unreasonabke behaviour. There was no proof he acted unreasonably.

I have been married 15 years this year. I can honestly say i don't regret it. I love him more than ever and its completly different, better love than it was at the begining.

We have both massivly changed. But given eachother room to change.

I went against the grain to marry him. Everyone around me felt marriage was something you should do when you are older. I got married at 20. Plenty of people told me it was a mistake.

We work at marriage. All the time. We talk, spend time away from the kids, putside the house and make sure we support eachother. Its not easy but we are happy to work at it.

Some marriages dont work. Some should never have happened. Some marriage breakdowns are no ones fault or just one persons fault. Lots of marriages just dont work no matter how much work is put in.

That doesnt mean anyone has been fooled into it or decieved.

Its true that some people dont show their true colours until a few years in, some people lie and decieve. Thats the person not marriage in general.

When I got married:

I did expect there to be hard work ahead, because plenty of people told me so. I absolutely did expect the initial burst of romance not to last, because plenty of people told me it was natural and normal for one's relationship to evolve.

I did not believe DW was the one and only. It was simply that I dated her. I daresay there would have been others.

Isn't it normal to think this way?

You've definitely chosen the wrong person if you see getting old with them as dull.

Agree with so many on here. It's a sad world if we've become so hedonistic and ego centric we can't understand the joy of caring, supporting, sharing, compromising and commitment. Many spend so much time and money having huge circuses of themed weddings with a lavish and ostentatious show but haven't really signed up to the commitment that marriage is.

I'm one of the few who agree with the OP. 30 years married this year and no, I wouldn't do it again and advise my DDS not to. By all means live with someone but I want them to keep their independence and have a better quality of life than I have had.

The main difference the abolition of marriage would have made to Mrs Owen would surely be that she would have no claim at all to Mr Owen's assets?

This explains the current options quite clearly. www.blasermills.co.uk/the-defended-divorce-reasonable-unreasonable-behaviour/

The reason she is going for a defended divorce is that she wants the assets split now. But if marriage had not existed there would be no asset splitting.

OP here again. Thanks again for some insightful comments, and special greetings to the few of you who see my point. I can't shake the feeling that most of you, though, live so deep in a bubble of marital happiness - good for you - that you've become oblivious to the obvious risks and problems that marriage entails. Many of you have said that happy marriage is not about luck, but hard work on the relationship. I'd say it's both, with an emphasis on luck - the luck lies in choosing to marry the person who is committed in the same way as you to making the marriage work, shows you the same affection and respect you show them and continues to show it for decades. Many people don't get that in a partner.

This is what I see around me: my parents who've been happily married for 45 years but for the last decade have been getting increasingly fed up with each other and now have little in common. My sister, divorced, after her husband went off the rails after the birth of their child - he found it too difficult to cope. A few cases among friends when marriage turns from affectionate affair to a purely financial union, and a few cases of 'familiarity breeds contempt'. One happy (?) marriage among my parents' friends who married when she was 18 and he was 19, still going strong after 48 years but at the price of her sacrifcing her dreams of education and career (after marriage husband forbade her to go to uni because she was required to be a homemaker).

Marriage doesn't guarantee happiness of course. But neither does it guarantee stability or a peaceful environment for raising kids. In fact, many couples split up after the birth of a child.

The problem is that marriage is a trap, with all the interdependence it entails - hence my view of it as dishonest. Often, by the time you realise you'd made a mistake, it's too late to start anew, because life goes on and you don't get any younger. Some mentioned that of course Mrs Owens can get a divorce after 5 years of separation - but 5 years to wait is an awfully long time to wait when you're 66.

Looking forward to hearing more stories from happily married couples. Perhaps those in less fortunate marriages are less inclined to post on MN?

I can't shake the feeling that most of you, though, live so deep in a bubble of marital happiness - good for you - that you've become oblivious to the obvious risks and problems that marriage entails

I don't understand what these risks and problems are. Could you be more explicit?

Of course YABU.

I love being married. Married DH 10 years ago. We didn't live together first, nor did we sleep together until we got married.

No regrets. He's my best friend and we are still very much in love. It hasn't always been easy of course, life's had it's challenges, ill health, finances, bereavement etc. We invest in our marriage and are purposeful about spending time together, talking together, praying with and for each other other and for our marriage (we are Christians), we laugh together a lot and are totally honest with each other about everything (even difficult things). We try to approach differences sensibly and rationally. I'm not saying we never disagree or that we always get it right but if we start to argue then we take a few minutes to check ourselves and make sure we're not being argumentative for the sake of it and to just think about what we want out of the disagreement so it doesn't just go on and on. Sometimes it's hard not to get angry and shout etc but ultimately DC are watching their family and learning how to do life from them. I want them to grow up knowing how a mutually respectful and genuinely happy and loving relationship looks like. Also to know how they should treat their partners and how they should expect to be treated, with respect and love and an open-mind, without shouting and name-calling etc but without rolling over and giving in or hiding feelings.

So in summary I love being married to DH and would choose him over anyone else a thousand times over. that's my experience of marriage.

Perhaps those in less fortunate marriages are less inclined to post on MN?

Have you read the relationship boards? There are plenty of people on MN sharing about their troubled relationships and getting advice.

I can't shake the feeling that most of you, though, live so deep in a bubble of marital happiness - good for you - that you've become oblivious to the obvious risks and problems that marriage entails.

Are you talking about abuse? Abuse can happen in any relationship, not just marriage.

I've been married twice, once for 18 years to a man- and the last 5 years to a woman. I've also had other long term relationships in between with women before same sex marriage was legal. relationships, including marriages last different lengths. Relationships, including marriage are about honesty, commitment, trust and love. I have been committed honest loving and trusting/trustworthy in all my relationships. Why get married you may ask? because it felt right, and I knew I was in it for the long haul.

PurpleDaisies - to recap my previous posts, the main obvious risk of entering into marriage is in pledging your entire life excisively to a person who may turn out to be a completely wrong choice. By the time it becomes obvious your better part of life may be gone.

Tying yourself to anyone (be it by marriage or having children) is a risk. Of course it is.

Marriage isnt a magic spell that means yiu stay together forever, blissfully happy. Everything you describe above could happen if the couples werent married.

Anyone who thinks that purely by getting married you will be happy for life is deluding themselves. That doesnt make marriage decpetive. It means that people arent thinking about it properly.

I tied myself to dh when i had kids with him.

I am 35. I could leave and start again. Many people marry more than once. My mum is on her third. How is it too late to start again?

Again, people entering marriage without thinking of possibly downsides are not thinking about it properly. That doesnt make marriage itself deceptive.

But kookie you could say that about anything. I spent years of my life training to do a job I absolutely hated and ended up leaving for something else and starting again.

You also don't have to be married to "waste" a lot of time with a partner you don't ultimately stay with. At least if you leave a marriage you have some financial protection.

So
OP "AIBU?"
Everyone else "Yes"
OP "You're too stuck in your own perspective"

To be fair OP, you asked for people who would choose their spouse again after 10/15/20 years, so you can't really complain when those are the responses you get.

I'm sorry for your parents, and everyone else you mention who is having a tough time, but I'm stuggling to see how this is the specific fault of the legal institution of marriage. Aren't these just examples of bad relationships? Yes, the fact they are married may make it harder to leave, but wouldn't all sorts of things - children, shared property/assets, mutual support networks etc - make that the case even without marriage?

You're argument is life is too short to tether yourself to one person, this may be soppy and idealistic, but I figure life is too short not to see what you can build with another person.

Lumpy - no, I'm not talking about abuse, just what I said in the comment above.

Though you must admit that it's easier to escape from an abusive relationship if you're not married to the abuser, legally at least.