About curtains on hospital wards

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

Currently on post-natal ward, baby in SCBU, recovering from c-section.

I don't mind leaving most of my dignity at the door, i don't mind partners and visitors on the ward.

But is it too much to ask to be allowed the bloody curtain around my bed to be closed?

Matronly midwife seems to have nothing better to do than insisting my curtains are open.

I was in a private room at first as ds was in SCBU, my only complaint about that was how abruptly we were turfed out. I'd just managed to start giving him his first feed - and he'd been born well over 15 hours earlier - when someone just walked in and said I was being moved and guiltripped about someone else needing it more as their baby was in SCBU. I asked to finish the feed and they grumpily accepted, but it was too late really. They came back a few minutes late and just started piling all my belongings on the bed and just ushered me out.

The ward was OK, I was allowed the curtains closed but everytime anyone came in they wouldn't close them properly, even if I was trying to feed. Visitors were there all day, which TBH I didn't mind as I was in for nearly two weeks and would have lost it completely if visits had been very restricted. Can't say I wanted to socialize with any of the other ladies. I wanted to go home. I actually had a doctor come to talk me out of discharging myself even though I had no intention of doing so and had never mentioned the idea just because the woman opposite had (stupidly IMHO) done so.

I discharged myself after dd1, I probably shouldn't have done, but the ward and staff were so bloody appalling. I wrote a complaint and the midwife I had when I had dd2, a year later, used my experience in a paper on how to improve services.

In my hospital and in two others I've worked in (different area) all curtains have a sign on which says something along the lines of 'respect my privacy'. Which basically means if the curtains are shut then introduce yourself and ask 'is it okay if I come in?' And you should shut them again when you leave.
All curtains must have that sign on or the ward will lose points in the audits. To just rag the curtains open against the will of the patient isn't something I've ever heard recommended by any auditing body or management.

The doors in the side-rooms usually have windows which can be changed from clear glass to frosted too, for the same reason - privacy.

I'm wondering if the nurses who claim it to be 'so we can keep an eye on you', are actually just making up their own rules in order to make their jobs easier (to ask is one thing but to force it upon a patient is another). There is no way I would of left my curtains open. I kept them shut when I left my bed too, I didn't want to leave my possessions on show to visitors and other patients.

I'm always shocked by the mixture of rules and procedures from one hospital to another, you'd think (hope) every hospital followed the same guidelines...

I hated this after my c sections too. After my third last year I was left very shellshocked as it was particularly traumatic and I just needed some time with my husband and baby not to be on view to the whole ward.

I discharged myself after DS was born, too, because that fucking ward was appalling.

I had similar issues, whenever they were opened I simply asked someone to shut them again. There's no clinical reason why you should have the curtains open, unless you know of any reason why they want to keep an eye on you.

The weirdest hospital experience was a HCA who insisted we have afternoon naps.

Given how much the NHS wants to support breastfeeding you'd think they'd realise that a bit of privacy would help women make a decent start. In my case I'm trying to hand express which is pretty soul-destroying before you add in a need to drag yourself painfully out of bed to close a curtain so you can do it without having your boobs on full display.

I don't mind at all how often HCPs poke their head in unannounced to check on me in passing, I don't mind what body parts and fluids they are exposed to, I understand they need to see we are OK. I'd just rather they had a quick peep round the curtain to do so.

Hospital patients need their rest. Visiting hours and limits on the number of visitors ensure everyone on the wards is able to rest and heal. As a customer of mine remarked after convalescing from a hospital stay on a four bed ward for hepatitis, "Hospitals are no place for sick people."

I'm really surprised by this. The hospital I had DS in was happy for you to have the curtains shut all the time if you wanted. I had three separate stays on a ward before he came, then post natal ward and both wards were happy with it.

If they wanted to come in they either said your name while outside the curtain or popped a waving hand through.

YANBU. Closing curtains should be allowed. It's not difficult for HCPs to ask if they can come in/ put their head round, the sight thing is just laziness.

wankingmonkey post cs care is dreadful. Although my private room was nicer after dc2.

Post hysterectomy care, much much better, and you're not doing it with a baby. A midwife told me they just want to clear the beds in the post natal ward so the mums don't get to rest. The gynea nurses did not approve of post cs care either.

Yanbu OP.

There was a thread the other day about a lady who was on a gynae ward who (understandably) didn't want other patients partners on the ward 24/7 and a lot of the replies were along the lines of 'just close the curtains, then'.

Yeah, because that works. I've been in hospital several times and just had nurses march into the ward and draw the curtain back regardless of what anyone is doing behind them.

When you use the NHS, you're just supposed to your dignity and any need for privacy at the door apparently.

YANBU.

Nurses and management need to accept that hospitals are run for the benefit of patients, not the convenience of staff.

I found closed curtains weren't respected anyway. While in early labour after an induction, a consultant just came in and starting talking about me to the nurse while I was contracting. I told her to wait outside until I was finished. She looked very surprised. It's fucking appalling.

There isn't a hospital in the country where there is a policy that curtains must be open. There may be individual risk assessments-someone at risk of self harm, an unattended child, someone with dementia or where a parent is thought to be fabricating illness.
Anyone with capacity is entitled to keep their curtains closed. Nurses and midwives should not be overriding patient preference. Refer them back to trust privacy and dignity policy ( they all have one).
Nurses should not be checking patients by glancing across a bay. There are NEWS/MEWS scoring systems in place to identify patients at risk of unexpected deterioration. If a compos mentis patient wants something they can call for assistance.

I am a closed curtains person which was fine for my first dc but with dc2 the ward sister kept complaining that closed curtains made her ward look untidy

They were alright with the curtains at my hospital - they'd leave em open after a visit but wouldn't object to you closing them. They were fucking appalling at post c-section care tho, I was forced out of bed for a shower on day 2 (less than 24 hours after an emergency section that led to huge blood loss and a transfusion) and I told them I didn't feel able but I was bullied into it. I passed out on my way to the shower. After that I was yelled at (actually yelled) for not speaking to other women - apparently they wouldn't discharge me unless I spoke to people. Then they tried to discharge me while I was telling them that I felt very unwell, turned out it was the beginins of sepsis that nearly killed me. The care was great on HDU/ICU from what I remember but when I got back on the ward, even after that experience I was bullied and moaned at and forgotten about (I had to remind them more than once to give me my antibiotics, and not to give me iron tablets after my iron infusion) it was, far and away the worst few weeks of my life and that wasn't because of the life-threatening infection.
And they kept trying to force mu husband to stay and sleep on the (wooden) chair by my bed so he could look after me and the baby overnight. We had a 2 year old at home

You have just had a major procedure. You could pass out and no one would know if you had you curtains closed.
Popping in every so often just isn't as effective. You will be observed much more by leaving your curtains open.

I got into difficulty without me realising on the antenatal ward - fortunately a sister passing noticed and I was wizzed off for help. I could have bled to death with the curtains round very quickly. I thought I was just tired.

I was given a private room at our maternity unit after I had our son early, he was in NICU. I was told this was because they wanted to avoid me being upset by other mothers on the ward being allowed to have their babies alongside, whilst mine was in another wing entirely.

The whole concept of communal wards is a disgrace. It's shocking that a so-called civilised country treat patients that way. Of course no one expects a private room in A&E or in recovery room, but plonking 6 or 8 patients (or 12!) in one open room, with no privacy, no dignity, no chance of peace, silence and rest is shameful.
I am not sure if it even makes sense financially long term. Patients take longer to recover, have more complications, need more GP appointments. It doesn't make sense, and it's wrong.

Just after I had my DS, i was having a catheter inserted and part way through the curtains were flung open by a lady asking what I wanted for tea! No 'are you decent?' Just flung them open! There I was legs akimbo on the bed with a tube being inserted exposed to the whole bloody ward! was not best pleased

Surely it is like this on all NHS wards though? I had a homebirth but have had several kidney operations inc emergency admissions. On my local SAU, where I was for 3 days, I was refused pain relief and IV fluids despite having been unable to keep water down for all that time. The lady on the bed opposite me was shouted at by her consultant in full hearing of the ward as he didn't feel her condition (bariatric surgery gone wrong) was worthy of being dealt with by the NHS. The worst though was hearing a terminal diagnosis being given to the lady next to me, quite audibly and matter of factly. Her husband's sobs still haunt me - that poor man.

I refuse to believe that in a rich country like the UK it is not possible to do healthcare better than this.

In fact, I know it is possible because one of my NHS surgeries was at the wonderful Bristol Southmead. Instead of wards, they have small glass "medirooms". Patients for elective surgery get assigned their mediroom at the start of the day. The surgeon and anaesthetist come to see you there, so no waiting around in a waiting room for hours. You go down to theatre but come to back in your own mediroom so no recovery ward. We had 1 nurse to 2 patients. That meant they had time to bring us water, chat.... they even off their own bat arrnaged my discharge time to beat the rush hour traffic. They were amazing!

So if one trust can do it, why can't they all?

Some horrendous experiences here. Mine wasn't as bad, after a section was on a four bed ward for three days. Everyone had their curtains closed, but I still hated every second of it. The woman in the bed next to me had many many visitors who swore and shouted and played kids tv really loudly for the children. One man forgot which bed his relative was in so just drew back my curtains to walk in without checking. Quickly apologised but I could have been in any state of undress (I probably did have my boobs out tbh). I was desperate to go home and was planning to self-discharge if they suggested another night. After a long slow labour I hadn't slept properly for a week, being in the ward felt like hell.

I'm lucky enough to be in a position where if we have any more children I'll be paying for a side room, but as it's a paid-for service where I am there will be many women who can't afford that privilege. And I might not even get it if there happen to be no private rooms left on the day.

There isn't a hospital in the country where there is a policy that curtains must be open.

That's not the case in practise though as many posters have experienced. It's even stated on my hospital's website, and on posters round the ward, saying 'curtains can only be closed for privacy and dignity reasons'. In practise the only reasons they allowed were if you were with medical staff, getting changed or feeding. It may of course be that there are grounds to challenge it, but I'd imagine (like me) a lot of women staying postnatally don't really have the confidence or headspace in that moment to challenge enough to have an impact.

Given the state the NHS is in, Johnny, I think rebuilding all our hospitals at (at least) £430 million a go & then trying to staff them to that ratio is, um, unrealistic, to say the least. I wonder what the nurse:patient ratio's like on the actual surgical wards - as distinct from the Day Surgery Unit - there.

A PP described curtains as being a cultural issue in nursing & I think they're right - I've been on wards where they want curtains drawn back once everyone's washed in the morning & wards where people are fine to stay shut away 24/7 if they wish; wards where people will waltz in as if the curtains where there for ornament right through to them being treated almost as sacred to the point of a staff member who's just left the cubicle to get something asking permission to re-enter 2 minutes later. Have heard a fair few doctors given out to by nurses - and indeed other doctors - for ignoring drawn curtains/closed doors, too.

If you can bear to, Bubbins, ask to talk to the Matron & explain your issues including feeling that your dignity & privacy are being compromised. If you can't face doing that, contact PALS when you get home. You can balance what you want to say about the curtains with what was good about the care you received & give an overall picture of things on the ward. Hope that you're able to get home soon & that you heal well & quickly.