Supreme Court sides with government on term-time holidays

[Mulledwine1]

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0155-judgment.pdf

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0155-press-summary.pdf

AIBU to get the popcorn out for the discussion of why this is/is not a great judgment?

What really annoys me is the following
School organised a school trip of a week going skiing. 60 children can go. Very little is planned re new stuff at school because of that (that's a quarter of all student in the year).
One student wants to go away skiingbthat week with his family. Same week, same activity.
It's refused by the school on the grounds you shouldn't be taking hols out of term time.

Right, and what about the 60 kids that are going away then? Are they going to some maths on the slopes??

It makes me think people might be a bit daft when they talk about pupils and teachers as if they are the same.

When I was a child, if my parents took me out of school without the permission of the Head, the absence would be unauthorised. Nowadays if you do this and they know it is for a holiday or similar, they can fine you £60.

As a teacher, I have a contract of employment setting out my working time and holidays. But the Head, my employer, can use his/her discretion to grant me unpaid leave for occasions like funerals and weddings. But if I don't get that leave and if I decide to go anyway, staying that I am entitled to 'family time', I won't be fined £60, I'll be fired.

Teachers and pupils aren't the same.

I mean I will be clear - I don't think having a day off to enjoy the sun or have a sleepy day is ok whether you're a pupil or a teacher, so it would bother me. But I can't understand why you would care?

Fopr me it's a matter of obeying rules and letting children see we support the school and even if we didn't agree with a rule we would still follow it for the collective good of the school and others. My sons had one day out in the last 2 years to a grandparent's funeral. (They are at fee paying schools).

I agree with the decision.

Agree with Greenpeppers about school holidays during term time. Different if educational field trips but ski holidays should be during holidays or all pupils offered opportunity of a week off during term time. I don't get why schools organise ski holidays anyway. It's not team bonding like hockey/ rugby tour and is just a completely non school related holiday.

Yes, my friends son went on two school skiing trips and a total cost of £3600. For one child during term time! Yet if I'd wanted to take all my kids on a £300ish caravan holiday to Wales during term time, walking up mountains, visiting castles etc I'd have been told no.

Yet another example of only for the rich.

Right, and what about the 60 kids that are going away then? Are they going to some maths on the slopes??

it's not about education. It's about control. The government can't do the hard steps to improve education meaningfully, so they fine parents for taking their kids on a holiday.

It's ridiculous.

I'm amazed at all these ski trips taking place in term-time.

Both my DCs went on the ski trip at their state school but it was in the holidays. Four teachers also went with them (the PE teacher was a qualified ski instructor).

I can't imagine the school paying for supply if it had been during term-time.

If a school organises a trip that a significant proportion of children are going on then it plans its lessons around that, for example doing revision or an 'off curriculum' topic for that week.

If a parent randomly takes a child out, then the teacher not only needs to 'catch up' the child on return, but by doing so the other children miss out on the teacher's attention.

Our school doesn't do skiing trips in term time. Longer trips are kindly run (by teachers not being paid for their time) in the holidays/half term.

I agree it is people who have been viewing it as 'their right' to take 2 weeks every year to go abroad that have spoiled it for the families who can only afford a week in a UK caravan park by going off peak in term time.

I completely agree with the decision

Term time holidays can still be granted for genuinely exceptional cases, just as they always have been, but for everyone else I think LEAs and schools will very much appreciate the clarity this has brought

So much, too, for Jon Platt's ambitions to make a fast buck out of running a class action on behalf of other aggrieved parents ... I wonder if he'll also be liable for the court costs?

What about year 6 residential trips?

I worked in a school where they arranged nothing for the kids who weren't going on the trip. Nothing. They were shunted round various different classes with teachers not having a clue what to do with them.

Yet if their parents had wanted to take them out that week they would have been told it was detrimental to their education!

I'm hoping it's changed since then as I felt so sorry for those poor kids.

I wonder if this chap has given any thought as to how all this attention/press is affecting his child. Surely he must also be spending a fortune on legal fees etc.

What mummymeister said

I wonder if this chap has given any thought as to how all this attention/press is affecting his child

Or his wife, come to that - if the expression on her face now is anything to go by

mywhat

In all three primary schools I've worked with, as well as the primary school my DCs attended ten years ago, there was/is an alternative programme of activities organised for Yr6 children who didn't want to or weren't able to go on the residential. Many of the children chose the alternative programme because it was so much fun.

Tbh I find it hard to believe that the school you mention was so poorly organised that no-one had made any plans at all for the children not on the residential.

I think it's daft and I will continue to allow mine to miss the odd week for a holiday (this year they miss 7 days away with their dad)

all 3 have 95%+ currently and are working at or significantly above where they should be - it is not doing any harm

There are kids I work with who refuse to attend or who's attendance is 35% - these are the ones to worry about.

Go back to school being allowed to agree 10 days and leave ordinary parents alone!

GreenPeppers if you take 60 kids away at once then you cater for them all to catch with what they missed?

It's a blanket excursion.

MyWhatI Residentials used to include educational trips? I know back in the day we visited castles, local land marks and conservation areas.

Neither of these examples areally akin to whipping kids out of school for 2 weeks is Disneyland.

Would you still feel the same if one of your kids didn't have such good attendance Ghosty ?

There are kids I work with who refuse to attend or who's attendance is 35% - these are the ones to worry about

Somehow we manage to address both issues at our school.

Such a high percentage of Americans take their kids out to go to Disney World that there are actually websites that provide you with learning opportunities in the parks so it's not entirely un-educational ;)

Also holidays can promote family bonding, budgeting, sharing of cultures etc. I will continue to be of the opinion that holidays are important.

So basically some people are of the view if a child is lucky enough to be healthy and above average intelligence then term time holidays are fine. If you happen to be ill or struggle st school then tough!

My thoughts are work right up until the end, stop giving my children 14 and 8 DVDs to watch in the last week of school, and I wouldn't get upset.

Better yet, I think someone should sue the school if they're DC watch DVDs in the last week of school, since we're now criminals for them not being in school. The school should be penalised for stopping educating the children before the end of school. Tit for tat and all that.

I've not yet taken my ds out for a holiday but will i be in June. Ds2 has his sats in may and I've made sure I booked it after then. I don't get to choose when I take my all of my holiday (frontline NHS), 15 days of school holiday is allocated to each person. We don't get to pick which school holiday we take it. (This wasn't in place when I stared working within the NHS). As the week in August I have been allocated is when ds1 gets his alevel results we can't go away that week (incase of clearing etc is needed) so ds2 and I are going away for 4 days together. (Ds1 didn't want to come with us)
I'll happily pay the £60 to afford a break in some sun with ds2 to save my sanity for another year.