Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

[Exercisejunkieforlife]

My DD is 15, yesterday all the girls were kept behind in assembly and told they must wear skirts from the official uniform shop.
I have no problem with this as this is where we get DDs skirts, my problem is with the reasons given.

They were told that it distracts the boys when the girls walk up the stairs and makes the male teachers feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings. ?

I think the school dealt with this badly and gave the wrong message. However, those saying the boys should have been spoken about not viewing the girls as sex objects possibly don't have teenage boys. Mine has lots of friends who are girls, he challenges other boys who say derogatory things about girls. He's a star, I love him but he thinks about sex every 6 minutes and has erections at the drop of a hat. The girls could be wearing tracksuits and ponchos. He'd still be thinking about sex.

how does 'feel uncomfortable' translate to 'can't control themselves'?

Exactly.... The men are feeling uncomfortable because they are in an awkward position.

On the one hand there is a girl (who whilst physically mature is emotionally immature) who is dressing in a way that is sexually provocative and designed to trigger a sexual reponse....

....whilst on the other hand the teacher is required to fully suppress any reaction to that and remain 100% professional. Of course a decent male teacher will have the morals and willpower to fully control their response and ignore the provocation, but that would potentially be a rather uncomfortable position to be in.

It's fairly typical of the hysterical over reaction that is often found on mumsnet though. Feeling 'distracted' and 'uncomfortable' becomes 'rapey', 'unable to control' and even 'paedophilic'.

It's so difficult for girls. I was the one who got the piss taken out of me by boys for wearing a "lampshade" to school when all the other girls were in short, tight skirts. I was brought up by my grandparents.

Quite apart from "you should wear longer skirts because boys and men can't control themselves", unless the uniform shop was reasonably priced, I'd be sending my DD in supermarket skirts. Also, my DD's 9, and her school skirt barely skims her bum because she's had the audacity to grow.

Soup the main reason is to be trendy and fit in, IME.

Mouse and Boney there are lots of countries which do not have school uniforms. I grew up in the US and never had a uniform, and I spend a lot of time in Holland and Germany- no uniforms. Schools do not comment on what kids are wearing; it is not part of their job to regulate kids clothing; perhaps there is some kind of official "dress code", but, in my school, for instance, it was never mentioned (never, as in: not once to anyone).

Kids tend to wear jeans and t-shirts, and also to have fun experimenting (lots of punk at my school, including mohawks). No one cared.

When clothes are not mentioned by the school, the effect is that clothes become less important, less of a source of angst.

British kids seem far more obsessed with conforming, wearing designer clothes, over sexualising of girls, and gendered clothing in general, than the kids of my European friends. The girls here in the UK (including my daughter) wear more makeup, more skimpy clothing on cold days, and are more slavishly obsessed with wearing what their friends approve of than any of the kids I see in the US and in Europe.

evildoctor I agree about supermarket clothing, but why skirts? I don't get the point of them really.

It's fairly typical of the hysterical over reaction that is often found on mumsnet though. Feeling 'distracted' and 'uncomfortable' becomes 'rapey', 'unable to control' and even 'paedophilic'.

Very true...
The reaction can be even more unreasonable when it comes to the teenage boys, who are apparently meant to be entirely unmoved and undistracted from their work by the sexually provocative clothing of those girls who choose to wear super short tight skirts.

The school is entirely appropriate in telling those girls that they are wearing inappropriate clothing and stating the obvious that it does (as it is designed to) distract the boys, and create an even more sexually charged atmosphere than would naturally exist between teenagers.

They took this action at dd's school. The skirts were shorter as an average especially for taller girls, and because they were pleated, any time it got windy out the skirts would blow up anyway. A lot of girls ended up wearing shorts underneath their skirts

I think the rule is fine but whoever gave that excuse, whether they believe it or not, displays a worrying lack of awareness of what is acceptable to say. Do they not read mumsnet??!

There's a time and place for tiny skirts and school is not the place. I wish someone had told my RE teacher that.

I think telling the girls that is terrible and I would complain, especially the bit about male teachers who shouldn't be in the profession if they can't cope around girls. But....I dont think the girls are wearing these short short skirts because they are comfy practical items of clothing or suit the weather and look nice. I think they might be trying to attract a bit of attention from the 15 year old boys and it's a bit mean to blame the boys for noticing. A women's has right to wear what she likes and in policing women's clothing we are veering towards victim blaming but I would rather girls got their self confidence and attention from flashing their intelligence, wit and humour than their knickers.

tinker the same in my dds school. Pleated kilts which were expensive so it started long hence shorts by Y10. It wasn't that short just a kilt.

As a teacher, a female teacher, it can make me incredibly uncomfortable - the length (or lack) of some the skirts is appauling. I think the school could have been a bit more tactful but I do agree that there is no place for short skirts in school. A lot of female friends who are teachers agree it makes them feel awkward and puts them in a position.

claraschu

this is from the first link that came up

schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/15/k519/aboutus/policies/rulesregulations.htm

"DRESS CODE"
"Although Cobble Hill does not (at this time) have a formal dress code, students and staff have agreed that students must be dressed in attire that is appropriate for school. Hats may not be worn in the building; girls may not wear skirts or dresses that are very short. If the staff determines that a student's attire is not appropriate, the student will not be permitted to attend classes until appropriate dress is available. A parent will be called and asked to bring a change of clothes for the student."

I often hear that other countries in Europe, who don't have a uniform policy, don't find clothing a problem.

Here we tend to think that if we abandoned uniform, kids would show up in school all manner of inappropriate clothes.

But that doesn't seem to be born out by other countries' experience.

Is this just a culture thing?

Or is forcing our kids into a uniform, part of the problem?

When my children went on foreign exchange trips, the groups were told to not take designer clothes, lots of labels, T-shirts with slogans on them, because no-one did that in France, etc, and they would stand out like a sore thumb.

It must be a cultural issue. I work mainly with inner city kids.
As mentioned the boys will wear T shirts with extreme slogans or obscene images on them. Our biggest issue with boys is keeping their hands out of their pants. At 17! Not just a bit of 'adjustment' full on stroking, although it is a habit rather than overtly sexual.
Sometimes the girls are hanging out. I struggle to not stare. A colleague once commented that she had knickers that contained more material than one girl's entire outfit. Roll on summer

Uniform is essential in school in the UK.

I haven’t rtft but I have dipped into a few pages.
I’m a female secondary teacher and have been for over 13 years. I would like to speak up for my male colleagues when people say they should be able to control themselves.
This has NOTHING…NOTHING to do with male teachers not being able to control themselves!!!
In the last 13 years I have often seen glimpses of girls’ underwear; falling over, high winds, going up stairs and some girls are just plain clumsy - it happens. For me, as a woman, it is nothing, but for a man it IS different.
About 8 years ago I was walking along with a male teacher outside on a windy day; there were some girls in front of us and one has a short skirt on - a guest of wind blew it up. I don’t think the male teacher even noticed. A boy near us did and laughed, the girl turned around and the said to him; “Are you perving on my knickers Sir?”
In an instant these were his thoughts:
I’m going to lose my job
I’m going to lose my career
I’m going to lose my wife
I’m going to lose my kids
I’m going to lose my house
Everybody will think I’m a paedophile.
This is what the school means when it says about male teacher feeling uncomfortable. But this is Mumsnet, there a chance here to give men and teachers a good kicking and for some that’s just too good an opportunity to miss.

I would agree that it is not a sexual thing to feel uncomfortable. The societal norm is to not show you genitals in public. As a female teacher I too feel infortable if I am flashed by students (mostly accidentally because they don't think about what's on show). Does that mean I am sexualising my pupils? Am I a closet lesbian? I would feel the same if any male or female adult flashed me their private parts. But in a business environment it is a lot worse because it is so totally inappropriate- completely counter to the purpose of the place.

Has anybidy seen the school summer uniform in Australia? Little more than a pelmet! I don't think anybody has a second thought about it.

But surely those boys with their hand down their pants would do so regardless of what they are wearing?

And of course I would fully support a dress code that highlighted that offensive slogans, would not be permitted.

But countries all over the world have proven you don't need uniform to be a good school. In fact many countries out do us in the education department.

For some reason in this country the solution to stopping children from dressing on clothes that are too "adult" is to have them dress like mini adults

All this problem with shoes vs ankle boots , no removing blazers etc is just bull shit. How flimsy Mary Janes can be acceptable year a sturdy walking boot not acceptable I don't know. I certainly know what is rather be wearing when someone stands on my foot or spills hot water in science class.

There is so much utter madness that goes on policing stupid uniforms.

I mean why dictate what colour bra a girl can and can't wear rather than let them where a top where it wouldn't he an issue?

Why insist on not being allowed to wear shirts under your skirt when even knee length pleated skirts one gust of wind and it's all over.

When 100 percent of your pupils get a-c grades then perhaps you can worry about red dots on the bottom of the shoe.

Otherwise stop arranging deck chairs on sinking ships and let teachers teach.

noeffing I'm meh about skirts vs trousers, DD goes through phases of preferring skirts or trousers, I give her that much say in what she wears to school, nothing will change when she goes into year 7. I will warn her though, if she wears a skirt, to be prepared for the "sexually provocative" comments.

The boys wear jogging pants for ease of access. Jeans or uniform trousers with buttons and belts make it less comfortable to slip your hand in for a rummage round.
When a girl with generous assets wears a red bra with a flimsy white top it can be a little distracting to everyone in the class.

Kennethwasmyfriend - that in black is exactly what I saw on older teenager going into school wearing.

Given uniform skirts are supposed to be an inch above the knee I'm not sure how they got to that point.

I don't think skirt length has much to do with skirts blowing up in the wind or falling over Teejay in fact when my school changed to the pleated type skirts to get rid of the tight Lycra skirts, both of those things were more likely to happen with the new style skirt.
Good thing about skin tight Lycra, it doesn't blow up in the wind!
I don't know of any secondary schools near me that allows bare legs, so at best you would see underwear and a pair of tights over! Not classy no, but hardly indecent exposure.

The male teacher worried about that comment, really? With another teacher present, in a public area his first thoughts would be he'd lose his job, wife etc.
I'm pretty certain any teacher at my school would have just replied with 'don't be ridiculous' or something to that effect!

I went on a fair few sports trips in high school, I played on a few school teams. The whole pe department staff team tended to come and there was more males than females. We'd be sat by the pool on our downtime in bikinis with the male teachers sat near by, no worry from them about it being inappropriate. We'd be playing the sports/training in tiny shorts, fitted t shirts/vest tops, for netball dresses which barely covered our bums! Again no inappropriateness. Teachers are trained in how to protect themselves as well as children in their care during child protection training. What pupils are wearing to school is the least of the issues in regards to this. Getting too close to particular pupils, crushes from pupils and that kind of thing are far more likely to cause allegations being made.
And of course allegations are made when a teacher as been inappropriate!!