Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

[Exercisejunkieforlife]

My DD is 15, yesterday all the girls were kept behind in assembly and told they must wear skirts from the official uniform shop.
I have no problem with this as this is where we get DDs skirts, my problem is with the reasons given.

They were told that it distracts the boys when the girls walk up the stairs and makes the male teachers feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings. ?

Clearly the entire male sex is at fault in this situation. I thought I should start by saying that to ensure that everyone knows that my heart is in the right place.

That said, I don't think anyone should wear clothing in a workplace, be this a school or an office or anywhere else, which offers colleagues a sight of people's underwear, pudenda or breasts. My wife works in a primary school, and the staff are included in this rule as well as the children.

And this is emphatically not because either sex is being made responsible for the feelings of the other, but because although the wearing of revealing clothes may be done with various purposes in mind, one of those purposes is usually to attract the attention of the opposite sex. Talk of people "empowering themselves", "celebrating their sexuality" by choosing to showcase their genitals in tight trousers, or wearing tops cut to allow bosoms to fall out of them is so much misandrist/misogynistic bullshit. Students go to school to learn, and people to workplaces to work, and distractions should be kept to a minimum.

There's 3 schools close to where I live so I see the kids every work day. There's , many young ladies who wear trousers but the majority are wearing teeny tiny little tight skirts. A lot of them wouldn't even need to bend or stoop much to be able to see their knickers, sometimes the black darker band on tights is actually clear to see as it's longer than the actual skirt.
It makes me uncomfortable never mind male teachers. Yes girls will roll skirts up when they leave the house, I did myself but never that short but I've witnessed girls with their parents/grandparents walking around with the skirt still up their arses. What are these people thinking.

I can't believe this thread. If the situation with seeing underwear is bad enough that teachers have complained to slt then it is clearly an issue that needs dealing with. It is not at all unreasonable for a teacher (male or female) to not want to see the underwear of the 15yo girls in a classroom. In fact, surely it is preferable that teachers don't want to see it!

All of the 'what about swimwear' stuff is a red herring - for whatever reason, in our society wearing swimwear is different to just wearing underwear. I (and many others) feel comfortable walking on a beach or at a pool in a bikini. No way would I consider doing the same in my bra and knickers. I can't really explain why it is different, but it just is. Trying to pretend otherwise is silly.

As for distracting the boys. I'd find it very distracting if I could see my colleagues underwear (cos it's uncomfortable to see that much of someone you work with). I'm sure many on here would find Tom Hardy in his underwear distracting. Trying to avert your eyes is distracting, as is being sexually attracted to someone. It isn't in the least surprising that 13yo boys might find 13yo girls underwear distracting. They might be uncomfortable, they might be attracted. Either way it is distracting. I imagine if the school was having a number of boys turning up with their flies undone it would be equally distracting to the girls and dealt with.

emboo, any boys deliberately lifting up girls skirts should be dealt with very severely. Totally unacceptable.

I think this reasonable, but those naughty boys wearing their tight little trousers that leave so little to the imagination make me very uncomfortable, and they all have such smooth delicious skin - could they regulate for baggy sweats and masks?

Actually, joking aside, couldn't they just insist on blue granny knickers with pockets in at all times? That's what happened in 1950s austerity. Men, financial austerity, stockings and underwear are a dangerous mix...

(by the way this happened at my school in the notorious 'black stockings' revival in the 80s (around the time of the Selfragettes)

Yes they would have been Amelia if caught or the girls told a teacher. The problem is teenage girls are so used to excuses being made for boys and the blame being placed on them, that they don't speak up about things like that!
Ever heard 'it's because they fancy you' or 'they're just being boys'
And sitting, what I'm presuming was the whole of the girls in school and re affirming to them, that they are a distraction to boys or are a source of discomfort to male teachers, because of what they wear is not the way to go!
Maybe girls with a pretty face, should start covering that up too!!!

Well said amelialion

At my DD school, the skirts were sometimes so short, that they barely covered the girls bum cheeks. Inappropriate.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings?

Yes, let's all stop modifying our behaviour, and do whatever we damn well please. If male teachers or students decide to walk around wearing budgie smugglers, showing the outline of their dicks, then so be it. Yes?

I never understood the English schools, the skirts are ridiculously short. The colder the weather the shorter they are. It is a school and a uniform should be respected. I don't mind what they where when they are not in school. It's not always about sexuality it's about respecting the setting you're in.

I haven't read the whole thread but I agree that school should have phrased it differently ( if that's exactly what was said).

However, as a female teacher of many years I have mulled this issue extensively. Here's my top point about why we should be telling girls to dress more appropriately in school:

1. It is a work environment. Not a fashion show, the park or a jolly holiday. That goes for all of them. It should be a work environment. That means appropriate attire. No unbuttoned shirts, boxers hanging out (retro), bums on show etc.

2. There are younger children around. This one might seem a bit pearl clutchy but it's based on observations. The short skirts are mainly Yr9 and upwards. But Yr7 are still 11. They shouldn't have to be constantly flashed. Some of them, especially some of the SEN kids, find it upsetting, even if they aren't always sure why. Most of them are still little kids when they arrive at big school.

3. Teenagers are bags of raging hormones who don't make rational decisions. All of them are struggling with their sexuality. They need to explore it. But school is not the place. School is a work environment. In fact school should be a welcome break from the constant sexual imagery, conversations, pressures etc.

I'd also like to point out that unless you've recently spent a lot of time with a cohort of teenagers then it's easy to forget just how sex focus, tactile and provocative they are with each other. Break time is like the mating dance of the chimps- not subtle. They are still children and learning boundaries. So anything that can reduce the sexual focus is a good thing. Getting your body parts out on display is not a helpful thing to do for either gender!

There was a school in the news a couple of years ago which decided to switch to trousers only uniform to avoid all the issues around too short skirts. The head teacher made the point that some of the skirts were so short that you could see the girls knickers when they were just sitting or walking up stairs and it's just not appropriate for school.

OP, I think there are two issues here: firstly, all students should wear school uniform (if that's the policy of the school). There should be clear rules about where it's purchased from, whether it should be specific-to-the-school or balanced guidelines about what is acceptable. Skirt length for girls and shorts length for boys (let's not get into skirts for boys ATM ...!) should be unambiguous. Religious clothing should be agreed and appropriately liveried, eg with local mosques - the board of governors should have developed a good relationship with all faith groups. Ties, blazers, polo shirts, trainers, long/short-sleeved shirts should all be specified as to their acceptability, along with the facility for free-school meals families to buy school-specific clothing at a reasonable price.

The issue of short skirts, low necklines, designer clothes, tee-shirts being worn under shirts with visible or offensive wording showing through, should be put into the uniform policy.

I think you have a good case to write to the head/principal and require that the issue of 'distracting the boys/making the male teachers feel uncomfortable' to be removed from the literature. Not only is it sexist (and thus blatantly contrary to equality legislation, by which all schools & academies must abide), but it is reinforcing the stereotypes that boys' schooling is more important than girls'.

I suggest you finish by telling the head/principal that you fully expect that the uniform policy is more rigorously enforced. This is a failing of supervision on the school's part.

I think they need to wear appropriate length skirts from the correct supplier. However, I think what they said to the girls is completely unacceptable. I'm a firm believer that we need to teach men that sexual harassment is not acceptable rather than teach girls they need to dress a certain way to prevent men from having urges and getting raped. While men don't throw themselves in the street at men only wearing cut off jeans, so we should be able to wear hotpants without a second glance. My 11 yo dd already thinks it's weird and imbalanced that men somehow have to be protected from themselves.

The reason for the 'chat' at assembly should have been non-compliance with school uniform skirt lengths. Making young women responsible for the behaviour of others is completely unacceptable. I would definitely be writing to the head!

The request to wear clothes from the school uniform shop is not out of line. The reason given is completely out of line and outrageous I would certainly be complaining.

Wow - I am outraged that "male teachers feeling uncomfortable" has been interpreted by so many people as "all male teachers are pervs who can't control themselves". I have felt very uncomfortable as a female teacher when getting a flash of knickers, too much cleavage (talking visible nipples) butt cracks, hands in pants. I have also never, ever found any of these things remotely arrousing. I am also always conscious of the way I dress around teenagers, especially when I was 15 years younger and considerably hotter newly qualified and only a few years older than some of the students.

Although I whole heartedly believe we should never, ever blame the victim for unwanted attention, or worse, I also think we are doing our young women a disservice if we let them believe that the way they dress has no bearing on the way they are treated. Yes, the school should have been much more careful about the way it phrased this, but surely this is one of the reasons that very short skirts are not appropriate in a work environment?

Havn't read the whole thread but I'm sure that I've read this reason for girls being spoken to before, possibly exactly same wording??? Maybe good idea to check the actual words used to the girls before contacting the HT. While at school my was touched by a lad who put his hand on her bum down inside her trousers while he sat next to her. She told me and I was incandescent with rage but she begged me not to report it. She told him where to go and said he thought as some of the girls were ok with it he thought she would be?? I tried to reason that if he continued to do this and possibly worse could she live with the fact that she could maybe have stopped him. She was terrified of being a snitch and said that if anyone found out it was her who reported it her life wouldn't be worth living and she would never go back to school. Seems quite a few girls had allowed this lad to do similar and more so he thought it the norm for all girls, my dd said he meant the "popular" girls(at 19 now she uses a far less polite way to describe them!) the ones in short skirts, incorrectly knotted ties and thongs. I despaired of the whole situation and did contact her HOY to discuss but had no name. My dd did tell me a year later that the boy had been permanently excluded for inappropriate sexual behaviour. She wore correct uniform at all times (despite getting stick for it) and trousers never a skirt and was quiet not one of the "popular" crowd. She now says looking back that it shouldn't matter what girls wear but that some clothing does give off the wrong impression not just to boys. The school has a strict uniform policy and now sends students home to change if they do not comply, both sexes.

My son is 15 & when dropping him at school I see some girls with skirts so short I have seen their bum cheeks . It is disgusting . Girls need to have more respect for themselves so yes they should be told to wear a proper school uniform.

You are NOT being unreasonable!!! Makes me so cross! Would you stop your daughters wearing bikinis on the beach or at the pool because the males can't control their thoughts?? Totally ridiculous. How dare they dictate!

persianpeach bikinis are appropiate for wearing on the beach or swimming pool.Extremely short skirts aren't appropiate for wearing in school. It's 2 different situations so why compare them?

I just don't understand why skirts in secondary school uniforms need to be shorter that primary school's ones. Manufactures make them shorter and it is a very hard time for boys (hormones and all) .
I have two DD and tbh I'm really scare about them travelling in public with tiny skirts so it will be opaque tights rain or shine all year round for them. Not really worry about anyone else but them ( sorry, selfish on this one)
Xxx

All the sympathy for the poor boys

I was a hormonal teen once.

Funnily enough I was able to cope with the sight of people in all states of dress without needing a change of underwear or being able to treat them like a human being.

Why are expectations of boys so frickin low

Persian - I really don't want my daughter to have to go to school with other girls who come to school dressed like lap dancers. The real question is why do girls feel that they have to do this? It's sad.

exactly. totally agree