Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

[Exercisejunkieforlife]

My DD is 15, yesterday all the girls were kept behind in assembly and told they must wear skirts from the official uniform shop.
I have no problem with this as this is where we get DDs skirts, my problem is with the reasons given.

They were told that it distracts the boys when the girls walk up the stairs and makes the male teachers feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings. ?

NancyWake:

I don't disagree that this should not be something a male teacher expects to happen to him. At all. But I do believe it could happen, to someone, with an older student without that someone being a pervert. And I think you are being both harsh on them and rude to me tbh. I am trying to articulate a difficult position with care because I honestly believe someone needs to put across the unfairness of people expecting girls to be able to walk around schools wearing less than they might wear to a foam party, but for male teachers to not notice, ever, at all, and to be fired if they do. I won't apologise for trying to be fair.

To be honest, I think the whole thing about this male teacher who gets a huge and visible erection on suddenly seeing a year 11's crotch, then gets fired and his life is over, is all just a bit silly and straw-menz, really.

I disagree. That's exactly what I said elisaveta. You obviously think boys should not be physically attracted to girls who areblatently trying to attract them.

No it isn't porpoise. What you actually said was this:

'Because it is a law of nature that boys/men find womens bodies physically attractive. Women also towards men but to a much lesser extent.'

That means something more than 'men find women's bodies physically attractive' because you also threw in a comparison to what women think of men's bodies. That you said this isn't a matter of opinion, and nor is what it means. The words you used have a meaning, and if you're saying it's actually something different, you're wrong.

This is not actually an issue for disagreement: the people who are telling you that you said more than men are attracted to women's bodies are right. You did.

You also need to stop making things up about what other people think.

I honestly believe someone needs to put across the unfairness of people expecting girls to be able to walk around schools wearing less than they might wear to a foam party

If I see anyone expecting that, I'll certainly put across the unfairness of it.

NancyWake:

I am not going to engage with the 'concerning' comments or the 'who do you know' comments. This is an entirely hypothetical discussion. I am perfectly within my rights to say what I have said. Do sod off with your horrible insinuations.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

I don't think we need to be talking about 'huge and visible erections' - taking hyperbole a bit far?

But men DO get erections, they are not voluntary, and it is sensible to have a conservative uniform policy so that no-one finds themselves in an uncomfortable situation. It's not about it being anyone's fault.

Seek - at my DC's school skirts are supposed to be knee length too. Most of them wear them just above tbh. But that's very different to the rolling up of the skirts to as far as you think you'll get away with it.

Trifle - Well I assume they have to be visible in order for all the 'accusations' to start, don't they ? If we're talking about something nobody is going to know about, then where's the issue? Apart from the obvious issue that the man gets erections over his pupils, of course?

Well said SeekEverything

Trifle No-one has said girls do not need to be dressed appropriately for school. Quite the opposite. They are simply saying that girls should not be made responsible for male reactions. It's part of the woeful philosophy that male sexual response can't be controlled and it is women's responsibility not to arouse them.

So a 15 year old boy seeing a 15 year old girls knickers peeking out from under her skirt will inevitably find that arrousing.

Sure, but that's not the girl's problem. The boy is going to find himself attracted to women in his lifetime and have to control himself and make himself responsible for his own urges and feelings.

I just can't stand this. Every time this sort of subject comes up, some knuckledragging mouth breather feels a need to remind us that men are naturally attracted to women. As if we need to be reminded of what men want and like. Because this isn't reinforced to us eleventy thousand times every single fucking day on every single fucking medium. We know what men want. We never fucking stop hearing about it.

But what we don't get is an equal message that men are responsible for dealing with themselves if they can't get what they immediately want, and that it's not women's problem or responsibility to make sure they never see anything they want and can't have.

But it's circular. Because as soon as someone says "Yes, men are like that and that's why it's their responsibility to control themselves", the baboons just come back with "BUT MEN'S PENISES. IT'S ALL ABOUT MEN'S PENISES. YOU MUST LISTEN TO ME TELL YOU MORE ABOUT MEN'S PENISES. YOU ARE OPPRESSING MY PENIS. I AM ALLOWED TO BE ATTRACTED TO WOMEN AND CONSTANTLY TELL YOU ABOUT IT. MY PENIS. MY PENIS. DID WE TALK YET ABOUT MY PENIS?"

It's just so fucking tedious. And later on, it becomes dangerous.

Yes what a very odd thing for the school to have apparently said. Everywhere from the police force to hcps's etc have uniform regulations. To reinforce dress code is fine, to say because it distracts the boys is just so confused it would make me question the intelligence of whoever said it. Are you sure it isn't just 15yr olds embellishing the story as they are prone to?

It would obviously be a good idea for OP to double check, but for better or for worse there are clearly a number of people on this thread who think that the OPs account of what the school said and did is perfectly fine. Problematic as that opinion is, it's widespread.

Is it so implausible that some people who think it's acceptable to tell teenage girls to modify their clothes because of the effect on the males around them, also hold positions of responsibility in secondary schools? It's wrong, but I don't know that it's odd.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

Well, some people are saying that tiny little skirts and tiny little knickers that give people a view of girls' bottoms on the way up the stairs shouldn't ever be a problem for a male teacher and should be easily ignored by male students. I have been to plenty of foam parties - the clothing element sounds about right to me.

Why do you think teenage girls are so interested in 'accusing people of something?

Look how many people on this thread are accusing the boys and men of not being able to control themselves, with no evidence whatsoever. It's not too far a leap to assume that some girls will pick up this way of thinking from their mothers parents.

Because it is a law of nature that boys/men find womens bodies physically attractive. Women also towards men but to a much lesser extent.

True. When all is said and done, as part of the animal kingdom (and indeed true for all living things) our purpose on this planet is to reproduce and die. To do that males and females of the animal kingdom, of which we are part, attract and respond to that attraction whatever evolved mechanisms are in place to do that. As of yet, I have not seen any evidence that evolution away from this would be any more rapid than other evolutions.

You obviously think boys should not be physically attracted to girls who areblatently trying to attract them.

I rolled my skirt up as a schoolgirl and it was fuck all to do with boys and everything to do with trying to flout the uniform rules. I don't say the rules shouldn't be there or shouldn't be enforced. But it was about the rules, not the fucking PENISES.

'As far as you think you'll get away with' is the key here. It is all, always, about what you can get away with when you're at school in uniform. Vans shoes, earrings that aren't really 'plain studs', hair ornaments, wrong kind of bag, too much make-up, unnatural hair colours, even rolling up the sleeves on polo shirts when that was cool last summer... it's pushing boundaries, personalizing ....

I really dislike the idea that the only reason a girl does something is to be 'provocative'!

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

The issue is in the way the male teacher will feel. It isn't about anyone actually making accusations. It is about the concern that someone will make an accusation. People shouldn't have to deal with this worry at work if it can be minimised or avoided. And it can be.

OP I would be outraged and take it to the head.

Because it is a law of nature that boys/men find womens bodies physically attractive

I'd better tell my gay brother that he's defying the laws of nature. I suppose it's nothing he hasn't heard before

Am I allowed to find women's bodies physically attractive too, or am I breaking the nature law as well?

Horrible insinuations? Trifle

You're the one who 'insinuated' that a male teacher could get fired for being 'caught off guard' once in his career. I simply asked if you knew anyone to whom that had ever happened. I highly suspect not.

Why do people always suggest this is a male problem?
I guess it's just like everything else related to how females dress.

FWIW, irrespective of the male perspective, I'm a woman who used to teach and have lost count of the amount of knickers and back sides that greeted me while walking up stairs.

I find some skirts on girls absolutely disgusting for the length, they just cover the bum.
just put them in a decent length skirt, we don't all want to see tomorrows laundry whether male or female.

YABU - I've seen school girls in school uniforms. A lot of them wear a tiny skirt with thong or g-string. Completely inappropriate.

I can understand why anyone would feel uncomfortable. I don't want to see it but it's there in your face as they're walking down the street.

It wasn't long ago I was one of them girls. It was deliberate for your thing to be showing to get attention from boys.

Hell will freeze over before my DD will wear anything like that in school!

itsmine:

Well, I am sorry you feel like that. But 'complete control' over erections isn't a real thing. I am conscious that what I am saying is an uncomfortable point (and I don't really like making it) but it is the simple truth as I see it. You can see something and find it attractive (even arousing) without being a paedophile and without ever acting on it. I feel sorry for men sometimes when they are expected to be able, not to ignore feelings that we all know they might have (which is reasonable) but to never have them at all.

I don't know if you have any sons, but consider this: if your son graduated university at 21 and went into a classroom as a student teacher to older teens, and lots of the girls had on very short skirts, and he told you he felt uncomfortable because he was worried about seeing something he might find arousing, would you believe he was a pervert? Really?

*thong