To think this is not rude?

[Lulabell1979]

Would you consider the phrase"have you got the hump today?" to be rude?

Context - business meeting, someone senior from other organisation being very rude, not listening, interrupting aggressively pushing an idea, having a go at junior member of team, then starts having a go at my organisation saying we don't do anything. (We provide thousands of pounds of support and man hours to his organisation that is a charity). He is normally quite jovial but is bossy. I was getting so annoyed by him my options were to end the meeting or cut him dead somehow. I said the hump comment because I believed he had a sense of humour. Clearly not! I recognise it's not the most professional thing to say but when someone is being incessantly aggressive towards you I don't think it is the worst I could have said? Whilst he presents as being friendly/ jokey he is also very "boys club" and my boss has now told me off about this. Can't help feeling he just didn't like a woman telling him to back off and am v pissed off that I have been called over it. AIBU?

I'd have said that only if I was looking for a bit of fight and only one on one with some one I knew well. I would have said that I find the tone the manager is adopting unnecessarily agressive and asked for a short break to take stock and then come back to discuss solutions. I am kick arse at work though.

Hey OP. I totally understand. And another he may have taken it another way. But you don't know what else he's dealing with perhaps business or private life. I think the lesson to be learned is not to take a risk with a comment that could be misconstrued and in future play safe. I think the comment about 'usually these meetings are amicable and produced iv but today we seem to be coming from different points of view. Perhaps we should stop now and reflect and I'd be grateful if you would let me know the specific areas you are concerned with which we can address before we reconvene..... or something along those lines ...

Alternatively revert to fcuk off you wanker

@Bluntness100 and yes I agree I could have handled it better but i have far worse said to me most days and don't complain every time!

I get it that you perceive the situation to be different because this man is from a charity your employers support, as opposed to a client. However, you have to think about the fact that your employers don't support it out of pure altruism - they will be aware that it is good for their public image, for instance. They may therefore be less than happy if someone from the charity they are publicly associated with goes around bad-mouthing them as a result of your conduct.

He was rude and arrogant. We all get that, I think.

Most posters think your comment was inappropriate if not rude.

The response you keep giving is to simply justify your inappropriate and horrible comment by saying he started it first. Moreover, you qualify that you were less rude than he and restrained your real feelings so it's fine.

Sorry, no it isn't. Both of you behaved inappropriately. And your justification is that, which a 5 yr old would use 'he started it first'.

@Bluntness100 and yes I agree I could have handled it better but i have far worse said to me most days and don't complain every time!

Me too. The point in managing it well is not just about politeness though it's about protecting your own arse and leading by example .

You say your career is excellent, that will cease to be the case if you get repeated complaints about your behaviour. No matter how much you were goaded all that your line management will think is you are unable to manage the situation through to an amicable resolution and that you are setting a bad example to more junior staff.

If uou worked for me, I'd let the first instance slip with a quiet word as your supervisor did. If it arose again I'd start to think about training for you and if arose a third time I'd reconsider your suitability for your role as I would see it as you were unable to retain control when faced with a difficult situation, were enduring repeated complaints/ alienating business partners who we wanted a good working relationship with.

@Megatherium it is very hard to explain the ins and outs without disclosing who etc. My issue is I don't like anyone to be that rude or aggressive to me. I responded perhaps not in the best way as illustrated. I do know him well and it was all uncalled for and strange. I am very upset by the fact he complained and my boss who was fine with it has now changed her mind. I was looking after our interests as a company whilst trying to help them, the same processes and considerations I have to do daily. He felt we were not doing anything, I pulled out all the evidence of what we do and the results. This still wasn't good enough and he continued to have a go. I believe he is under pressure by committing more to his board than we advised would come from this. I have told him several times the reality but we will support as much as poss. That's his problem if he has overstated things and bullying me as someone trying to help him will not help.

You say your career is excellent, that will cease to be the case if you get repeated complaints about your behaviour. No matter how much you were goaded all that your line management will think is you are unable to manage the situation through to an amicable resolution and that you are setting a bad example to more junior staff

I completely agree. If you worked for me, this would be a black mark against your name.

@Letseatgrandma my boss he originally agreed with me before he complained. I had told her everything. She thought it was fine.

*had

So he did have professional concerns (even if they were unfounded) and in that one statement, you wrote those concerns off as him just 'having the hump'

That is what is so unprofessional about it, and tbh reflects badly

@NoelHeadbands he has concerns because he has given his board a figure I advised against. His choice. I have repeatedly told him targets are not realistic. I have evidenced all our outputs and achievements which go above and beyond our commitment. This isn't good enough because he has got himself in a pickle and thinks we can wave a magic wand to solve it.

So if you know all that, why would you ask him if he has the hump??

There is also another key one here, which is managing expectations. You fundamentally understand the issue is he expected more from the relationship than is being realised (I'm wondering if you're in pr or marketing) and as such is there a way to help him, to help him position what is being delivered positively to his own board to take the pressure off him?

@NoelHeadbands because nothing was going in I was stating facts and he was getting more and more angry towards us. As I have said it clearly wasn't the best choice of words despite my personal viewpoint. It was heat of the moment and I was actually trying to diffuse, it backfired but I felt defensive.

@Bluntness100 I told him at first meeting what was realistic. His attitude was "we've got to aim high" I said that's fine but this is what's realistic, presented previous evidence etc. Have repeated many times. He doesn't listen. He clearly has some issues and big targets and I want to help but I want be made responsible or a scapegoat for him lying to his board.

*DONT want to be responsible.

Very rude, makes you sound unintelligent (by that i mean unable to handle it adultly and professionally) and sinking to his level. Both as bad as each other

Op, I get what your saying, he has over promised and is now under delivering and he's kicking you guys to deliver more. Been there and done that and it's horrible.

Two sides to it. Do your management agree what has been done and delivered is in line with expectations and what was committed. If yes there is no issue there.

In terms of the meeting itself, it would have been prudent to take a break, then come back in and detail out what the commitment was and then recap what you all have delivered.

Then if he says he wants more you ask him to detail out what more and then say you will take it away and revert on whether you can support further. Then communicate back in writing what you have delivered, what the commitments were and what if anything more uou are able to do to further support.

It was heat of the moment and I was actually trying to diffuse, it backfired but I felt defensive.

Yeah...that would be the unprofessional bit!

Ach no one died, I'm sure he wasn't mortally offended and will get over it. At worse you've made yourself look a bit ineffective. Sadly we all encounter arseholes at times. Suck it up, move on and next time try do it differently so you don't come off worst in the end

@Bluntness100 yes my boss gets it, she knows what he is like however I am somewhat annoyed by her convo with him yesterday as I feel
I'm not being supported, I have raised the target issue etc a million times. No issues from our side in terms of we don't have a target, where the problem comes in is him asking for more and more resource and if we say no he says he'll do it anyway but then what he wants to do isn't always appropriate when it's sat under our "brand". It is very difficult.

I would never dream of saying that in one of our multi agcency meetings and these are people that I socialise with out of work! I may say it at their house when having a brew but only when I am away from work.

As a couple of others have said I would have wound the meeting up and set another date and in the mean time find out what he isn't happy with so you have your answers and evidence ready.

Megatherium has hit the nail on the head. You might not get why this guy is a customer but he is. You have a terribly dismissive attitude towards him and his charity if the posts on here are anything to go by and I wonder if that came across in the meeting too. Either way, you didn't handle the situation well.

Being set unrealistic expectations is such a common thing in business so I doubt this is the first time it's happened to you - I'm sure we all have a dozen stories of our boss promising something to her boss which is completely unreasonable and then making it your problem to deliver it. And it certainly won't be the last, and you need better tools to deal with that situation. Would you have said a similar thing if it was a) a customer or b) a senior figure from within your organisation?

I do feel for you - managing up is, in my experience, the most difficult and stressful part of any job. There are some really good courses on managing up and handling conflict out there - I'd recommend you look into one as this is something you'll continue to encounter.

I work for a well-known charitable organisation that has a mutually beneficial relationship with several major commercial companies. It is possible that I work for the same organisation you were dealing with.

Please note I used the phrase 'mutually beneficial'. The idea of help came from the commercial organisations initially. Although it helps us with additional resources we have to support their inhouse processes to make it work which can often be quite difficult and awkward. The commercial organisations benefit greatly from the positive PR , improvement in their customer engagement and general brand enhancement through their involvement with our charity.

Yes you were a bit rude and inappropriate.

But more importantly you may need to reconsider your own behaviour/attitude and need to consider why the person appeared to 'have the hump' and stop ignoring the points he was trying to make. It sounds like you feel the charitable organisation should be overly grateful for the support your company gives and just put up with whatever you do or don't do.

If I was your boss I might be considering bringing in someone more open-minded to manage this relationship.

Lulu , i get where you're coming from, for the simple reason I've been there and it's one of the reasons I keep responding, it's kind of close to my own heart as I recognise your reaction, but I also understand the management reaction as I've been on both sides of that fence. Currently on the management side but I still remember being on the other side.

From a management perspective there is an expectation on you to manage the relationship. Even with the toughest of clients. Not easy but saying to someone reacting badly and under pressure have you got the hump today isn't managing it well. No matter how understandable it was.

If he threatens to do something under your brand you simply re iterate in writing the core principles of the agreement, if they break it and use the brand unauthorised, well my company would do a warning meeting depending on severity and then cut ties or immediately cut ties based in breach of contract.

There is always ways to handle these things. Right now possibly the best bet is to agree a plan of action as a team on how best to handle it, inc what was agreed, what can be provided , when, in what manner and what is not acceptable. Then detail that in writing to them. Have it reviewed first. Then set up another meeting, invite the boss for support, detail an agenda in advance and agree how to address certain scenarios. Try to move it back to something positive where you have a path forward. I'd also apologise to him saying no offence intended and as a way to recognise the complaint and move past it.

It might choke you, but let's be honest, your boss will appreciate you being the bigger person. Oh and stop saying he started it and you could have done worse. Own it and create a plan to move forward.