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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

1000 replies

NotTheMrMenAgain · 31/03/2017 12:21

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

OP posts:

lizzyj4 · 31/03/2017 15:14

There are some amazingly ignorant comments on here, mostly from people who are lucky enough to have never had any tummy troubles, period problems, etc. and on that basis seem to assume that no one else should have them either. 10 - 15% of the population are estimated to have IBS (before you get into anything other conditions/factors) and as such may need to be able to access a toilet fairly soon after feeling an urge. That's 1 in 10, 2 - 3 in every class - and at secondary age it's not unusual for there to have been no formal diagnosis. It doesn't make the condition any less real for the sufferer. Those posters talking about 'vanishingly rare' conditions and claiming that 99% of secondary children should be able to manage their toilet visits around lessons really need to go and educate themselves about people who might not be exactly like themselves. If you're teachers, I despair, I really do.

I'm so sorry OP, the behaviour of this teacher was barbaric and the very least I would expect is an apology.

mumsneedwine · 31/03/2017 15:14

Oh and I've been doing this a long time and I've never had a student wet or soil themselves. I feel v sorry for this poor child and they were obviously ill, and if I'd been the teacher I would have apologised, bought chocolates and made sure the rest of the school knew it was my fault. But I've never ever had it happen in over 15 years.

WankingMonkey · 31/03/2017 15:14

I didn't know kids were allowed phones at school actually.

Thats a new one to me...what if the child doesn't have a phone and needs the loo?

LesLavandes · 31/03/2017 15:15

Make a formal complaint OP. That is disgraceful behaviour from the teacher. Your poor child. Is this a school policy? I would go nuts if this happened to mine.

mumsneedwine · 31/03/2017 15:15

Yes but lizzy al those students would have a toilet or exit pass so not an issue. Quick flash of the card and off they pop

JacquesHammer · 31/03/2017 15:16

Trifle - and yet managed properly it works without chaos.

But then I am so glad to say our teachers treat each kid on a case by case merit!

Pseudonym99 · 31/03/2017 15:16

Imagine if this was the other way around - a child soiled themselevs because a parent refused to let them go to the toilet, and the school found out - the parent would be reported as per child protection guidelines. I believe a similar approach needs to be taken here. Report the school to Ofsted, report the teacher to their regulatory body and get the incident reported to the police - even if no action is taken here, the teacher will then be on the police's radar in case of any similar incidents in the past or future. Then put in a civil claim for lost earnings / the cost of any clothes that may have needed throwing away etc.

By all means whinge at the child for not going to the loo during break or other suitable opportunity, but do not prevent them going if they need to!

Trifleorbust · 31/03/2017 15:16

lizzyj4:

I have students with a letter from home to say IBS is suspected - that is fine by me.

mumsneedwine · 31/03/2017 15:17

Well Monkey they should have their phones off in their bags but I can still request them as collateral. 😁. Many many times a toilet visit is so they can use their phones !

Trifleorbust · 31/03/2017 15:18

even if no action is taken here, the teacher will then be on the police's radar in case of any similar incidents in the past or future

I am actually agog that you think this would happen. My school's policy is that I am NOT ALLOWED to let them go. Why on earth would I be on the police 'radar' for incidents in the past or future for doing my job? They would not have a leg to stand on with a complaint that I did my job, upholding a perfectly legal policy.

Singlelady · 31/03/2017 15:19

When I was at secondary school (not that long ago, Im 22) toilets were locked except break and lunch but people with medical needs had a special pass though most teachers used there discretion. I think it's a difficult one because people would often try and meet up to smoke, vandalism and on more than one occasion the keys for the toilets were stolen by students. If you were allowed to go to the toilet during class then you had to sign a book and if it became a habit you had to either have a doctors note or you would no longer be allowed out.

I'm guessing the child had an upset stomach as most secondary school children are very unlikely to soil themselves that way unless there was a problem. The teachers call could be based on lots of things especially if the child has form for going to the toilet during class time. However I think maybe a little note to the child saying that they were sorry about what happened and why (if there is a reason) that they didn't let the go. I think maybe speaking to the child about it in person could humiliate him/her even further and the teacher maybe thinks acting like it didn't happen is best for the child.

So I would say yes it is legal but its a horrid situation and I really do feel for the child

mumsneedwine · 31/03/2017 15:20

And lizzy how would you feel if your child's teacher wandered off to the loo leaving the students alone ? Because there would be no one else to supervise them but you seem to imply it's not possible to wait.

BoffinMum · 31/03/2017 15:20

If I child really genuinely needs the toilet and an adult is trying to stop them it's a safeguarding issue. But many do mess about!

WateryTart · 31/03/2017 15:21

even if no action is taken here, the teacher will then be on the police's radar in case of any similar incidents in the past or future

The stupidest thing I've read all day. Utterly ridiculous.

AlfaMummy · 31/03/2017 15:23

Breach of Article 3 of the ECHR? I'd say so.

homealonehappy · 31/03/2017 15:23

That is so horrible for the poor child.
It's strange to think back to when I was in school that it was the norm to be refused access to the bathrooms during lessons ( this was only 6 years ago). Back then it was accepted but I would be really annoyed to hear if it happened to my own child now!

GinAndOnIt · 31/03/2017 15:23

This is an interesting read. In my secondary school, we weren't allowed to use the toilets at all apart from break and lunch times. All toilets were locked, but if you had a medical reason, you could walk to the office and show a medical card to get a key. Quite often, the office was a 15 minute walk from where your lesson would be. I hadn't even considered it at the time (I was too scared to use the toilets in school time anyway due to the types of people who would be in there - we all used to wear night time pads during our periods!) but now I'm older (and with urinary issues) I can see how terrible this must have been for those with urgent needs for the toilet.
They had this rule in place though, to stop truanting, smoking, drug dealing, bullying etc etc in the toilets. Horrible school!

That poor boy, OP.

mumsneedwine · 31/03/2017 15:24

No one is answering me ! So it's ok for teachers to go to the loo during lessons ? Because if it's ok for the students then it must be ok for me. I don't want any complaints from parents that I've left the classroom unsupervised - obviously not going to the toilet on demand is an infringement of my human rights so I'll just pop off and leave Year 7 alone during a science experiment. I expect to be headline news next week 😁😁

Headofthehive55 · 31/03/2017 15:25

I was one of those "sensible teachers" who worked in a school that allowed freedom for children to go to the toilet.
Wonderful you are thinking!
Problem is, the vast majority of students used it as a get out of class card - remember you can't tell if someone needs the toilet so you can't discriminate....
I taught one lesson I remember when at no point contained the whole class. I am sure that most parents would be horrified. Some children went in and out several times. Remember I wasn't allowed to stop them.
If children were sensible this would not be needed.

MackerelOfFact · 31/03/2017 15:26

It only takes one dodgy sausage roll from the canteen at breaktime, or too much sugar-free chewing gum, for bowel control to become a serious issue, surely?

I understand that having pupils wandering around the school isn't ideal, but there must be other solutions - limiting to one child at a time, getting them to make the time up after the lesson, keeping a record of which children have left the lesson at which time, etc?

It's untenable for all the pupils to go between lessons, as I would imagine there are nowhere near as many toilets as pupils.

PutThatPomBearBack · 31/03/2017 15:27

If they are about to soil themselves then yes mums.

WankingMonkey · 31/03/2017 15:29

If you had a sudden urgent urge to go are you really saying you would shit yourself infront of your class?

mumsneedwine · 31/03/2017 15:30

Actually even then I'm not allowed to leave my classroom !! Although I have not been in the situation where I feel like I'm going to soil myself - even with food poisoning I've managed to go to the loo between lessons. I feel very sorry for this child but it is an exception that rarely happens.

Lelloteddy · 31/03/2017 15:31

Read the OP Trifleor. The child asked for the toilet repeatedly.

The more you patronise people on this thread, the more of an arse you sound. Jumping repeatedly on every poster ( and there are many) who disagrees with you is tiresome. Normal, empathetic human beings will not condone a situation in which a distressed child suffered utter humiliation because of a bloody minded/by the book/ nasty bitch ( delete as appropriate). People think differently to you. Deal with it.

Trifleorbust · 31/03/2017 15:31

mumsneedwine:

Of course they aren't.

There is no way of answering it other than to be evasive.

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