Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

Utterly dreadful poor child.

Poor kid, am not surprised his mum is upset, he will spend the rest of his school years being described as 'the kid who shat himself in class'

I have IBS and when I need to go i need to go, the thought of someone telling me i can't makes me feel very anxious which would exacerbate the need to go!!

What some of you are failing to understand, is that just because a person has an urgent need for the toilet, does not mean they have a medical condition.

Trifle in my opinion the ability to use the toilet is reasonably restricted is the problem. Adults in any job have the choice to go, I'm sure a surgeon operating isn't going to just shit him/herself right there in theatre.

A child in a classroom not being excused to go to the toilet, resulting in them shitting themselves is something they'll probably be bullied about for the rest of their school lives. Is this acceptable? Surely a teacher can notice whether the kid is in real need or taking the piss? If not, they shouldn't be teaching kids

I have three friends who have soiled themselves in public as adults. One has ibs the other two had food poisoning. In all cases it came on suddenly when they were 5-10 mins from a toilet. For all of them it was horribly embarrassing. Fortunately they did it in front of people they never had to see again which is significantly better than a class of your peers who you are going to spend the next 4-6 years with.

Poor child. And since when can anyone concentrate and learn if they're desperate for the loo? Why is the education system training people for accepting sweatshop call centre conditions?

As a teen at secondary school I would hardly ever go to the toilet at break times because there was always people messing about and looking over the cubicles or opening the doors. I tried to hold onto it all day but there was a fair few occasions I had to leave a lesson to go to the toilet. I wasn't a perfect pupil but I'm sure I was never refused to go.

DD seems to do the same because she's always desperate as she walks in the door.

I feel so sorry for the kids that wet/soil themselves because they'll never hear the end of it. I'm sure it will affect them for a very long time. My kids have been told to ask first and if they are desperate and teacher says no, just walk out.

I have worked in retail all my life and 2 separate managers have tried to impose a new rule whereby we were supposed to find them and ask if we could go to the toilet. We worked nights stacking shelves so not on tills or dealing with customers. I told them I will never ask to go to the toilet.

I can only feel grateful that the teachers at DD's school have the wit to deal with situations like this in a manner befitting a teacher and not a master at Dotheboys Hall.

However, this has opened my eyes to those unfortunate teachers who do favour humiliating children and I will be telling DD that when she goes to senior school if this ever occurs she can simply leave as she needs.

Sometimes the first sign of something wrong, might be a stomach ache. Or if the person is stressed that day, or something is making them anxious, can mean the person has a stomach ache and needs to go to the toilet asap.

Surgeons, police, firefighters, nurses etc manage mostly to hold on but this I think might be to do with adrenaline that allows the body to go into fight or flight. This is not really the same as being a student in a school, at least I hope they don't experience those levels of adrenaline.

It seems to me more should be done to tackle those children who ruin it for the majority. Maybe a one strike and you are out rule as far as being allowed to go during class time?

It is true that there are vanishingly rare circumstances where the sudden onset of a stomach illness would necessitate leaving the lesson or shitting oneself

Exactly - I'm presuming this is one of those circumstances, since only the most defiant of kids would poo themselves in public to make a point.

I don't think it's vanishingly rare BTW. I can think of a couple of times in the last 5 years it's happened to me at one end or the other, out of the blue. Happened to DS the night before last - he got up from dinner, said his tummy hurt, we exchanged 2 sentences (the second was me asking if he needed a bowl) and as I turned around to get up and get one, he threw up on the floor - no illness before, none since, no allergies or health issues.

KinkyAfro:

If I was operating on someone I would hold it. If I couldn't and it meant harm to the patient I would soil myself before I walked out of, say, a heart op. But I believe a healthy adult wouldn't need to - they are capable of holding it, recognising the need to go is building and planning accordingly. Other than in cases of medical need I expect secondary age students to be able to plan toilet breaks.

ChocChocPorridge:

Throwing up is far more common and yes, I have had that happen on a lesson.

*in

Idefix:

Same problem, though. Even piss-taking students are genuine sometimes. The same need for teacher discretion would be required whether they had had one strike or not.

If you soiled yourself in theatre, than there will be an infection risk, I am sure surgeons have their means.

All those saying the child should have been able to hold it in, clearly she couldn't. Or do you think she soiled herself in front of the whole class to get back at the teacher in some way?

From the OP we don't know if she was in the first class since break or the last class before lunch or the end of the day. She might have been holding it for nearly two hours.

Trifle I disagree. I don't have bowel or bladder issues, IBS or anything else. Earlier I ate a sandwich, a few minutes after I had to rush to the toilet and I only just got there, I couldn't have held it for love nor money. Imagine feeling like that and being told there's no toilet available.

How would you feel if you were told you can't go to the toilet when needed, or your child?

If I was operating on someone I would hold it. If I couldn't and it meant harm to the patient I would soil myself before I walked out of, say, a heart op

Are you actually a surgeon trifle or are you just talking nonsense? Because no surgeon (or any other member of theatre staff) would ever shit themselves mid-operation. It's a sterile environment. If someone urgently needed to leave then I'm sure that could be necessitated.

All those posters saying they can control their bladders/bowels to perform at certain times are very, very lucky and I just hope this never happens to them

Well I for one have found this thread very helpfhelpful. When ds2 starts secondary it will be with an agreement in place (backed up by doctors letter) that he be allowed to access the toilet as required. He can no more hold on than I can - must be a family thing. Hope he doesn't develop Crohns too

In the absence of IBS, Chrons, Enteritis etc, normal bowel functions for the pressure to poo building up very gradually from a "nothing at all there" sensation for at least an hour or so after the last bowel emptying, gradually becoming an awareness that there is something there which doesn't turn into a desperate need to go right now for at least a couple of hours (and even when it becomes pressing it can be banished temporarily with a good squeeze of the sphincters)

When there is something wrong with the bowel it just doesn't work like this. When you gotta go you gotta go.

I do sympathise with teachers who are expected to magically discern the difference between those who really need to go and those who want to muck around. I would suggest that the rule should be that if you really reallyhave to go then you can go but you will have an automatic detention or other disciplinary measure so that you only do it if there is no choice at all - with such discipline waived if you can produce a Dr's note.

The important issue that hasn't been addressed op is how are the school going to work to ensure that there is no bullying or exclusion of your friend's DC? How are they going to tackle the issue to make sure the child isn't scarred for life by this traumatic experience? Schools are supposed to have zero tolerance of bullying yet throughout this thread it seems to be calmly accepted by everyone that being bullied will be the natural and obvious consequence of an incident like this.

Well peukpokicuzo nothing I could've done earlier to stop myself and I'm lucky I made it in time. There is nothing wrong with my bowel, sometimes it just happens and it can happen to any of us at any time. To say it can be stopped by squeezing a few muscles is bollocks

What do surgeons do who have long operations?

DD had back surgery and the operation took 6.5 hours. The surgeon did the operation with a colleague and I assumed they switched out from time to time to give each other a break. Is that normal?

Some of the posters on this thread have said that they have been told they MUST not let children out of lessons to use the toilet. If the OP's son is at a school with this rule then it is the Head who should be getting all the grief, he or she will have made this rule.
The teacher will be caught in between angry parents and the senior management, it would be wrong to have a go at the teacher, for the decisions of others.