Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

namechanged4thisthread I'm sorry that happened to you - that sounds horrific by all accounts.

Oh for heaven's sake - so much hyperbole on this thread. One awful incident does not excuse all of the teacher bashing going on.

I have been teaching for 17 years and not once has an accident like that ever happened, nor have I heard of them, so they are reasonably rare - we don't go out of our way to be puked on or deal with wee/poo you know.

And human rights?! So, I'll just leave my classes every time I need to loo - leave them unattended. It's my human right. Or is that just age dependent. Of course most people, including Secondary aged people can hold it in and if they can't, exceptions can be made. If a stomach ache happens to come on suddenly, then say.

And I say this as someone who does let students go to the toilet but please don't underestimate the hassle this causes (yesterday, 7 students in total in a one hour lesson straight after break, asked to go to the toilet at different times in the lesson). More often that not, it is during a task that they don't want to complete...

My dd recently walked out of a Science lesson as her teacher wouldn't let her go to the toilet. She was bleeding heavily and really needed to change her pad. Of course you get the pisstakers but the teacher needs to use common sense.

DD2 has a uti at the moment and her teacher said she can use the loo whenever she feels the need.

Access to a toilet isn't on the list of human rights

People saying "just go" and "teachers are bullies" have no idea of the problems students cause in toilets during lessons.

Oh namechanged I am so sorry, a child soiling themselves in class is the ultimate humiliation, and can lead to them being bullied like yourselves. It is not acceptable! If this is the schools policy, I would be contacting LEA, Ofstead, Head of education and MP. There needs to be an accessible toilet always. I was one of the ones with a nervous tummy when I was young, never heard of IBS then, now it is. Sometimes a stomach ache is the first sign something is wrong. I am glad the teachers on here have compassion and excercise some common sense.

Absolutely trifle.
How many children would they allow out? Ten? Twelve? Twenty? At a time? One after one another? It's my turn next!

My friend who had IBS soiled herself when driving, and had to clean herself up in Tesco, and get new clothes

The children I work with often ask to work through breaks and lunch breaks to get work done. These are children who have been excluded from school. I run a tight ship but the rules are all to do with respecting people and property, respecting their own artwork and that of other students, being helpful and accepting help. Pushing through difficulty and the monkey on the shoulder that tells us we cant do art, and doing it anyway. They are currently working on a high quality piece of art for local public space- teaching civic pride and improving their own neighbourhood. Who cares if they want to go to the toilet?

Id like to know how you distinguish between the try on and real need?
It's a guess at best.

This is why I think blanket rules are generally a mistake.

Generally, yes, kids should go at break. If they haven't gone at break, they need to learn to go at break, and if that's taught by means of a bit of discomfort waiting to pee until the end of the lesson, then so be it.

BUT emergencies happen. I bet that if this surgeon was in the middle of surgery and knew they were about to poo themselves they would find a way to hand over and leave - because, lets face it, poo on the floor is worse than a surgeon leaving! We assume that they'll be sensible about it though.

What's happening here, with the parents telling their kids to just go, isn't for general 'I need to wee' situations that they should hold on through, it's for emergencies. My mum's a teacher, and so she's got a bladder of steel, but she has once had to quickly leave a class (knocking on the teacher's class next door to get her to watch the kids) when a bug came on all of a sudden - it's called an emergency.

Suggesting that everyone should never need to go to the toilet unexpectedly is crazy.

This sort of comment always puzzles me so can someone please explain. When I need to defecate, I need to defecate. I can't decide to go when I don't need to and I can't not go when I do (can hang on for a few min, maybe up to 10 as a child but no more). I have Crohns disease (diagnosed at 40) but have been like this my whole life. Am I alone in this not being able to strategically plan my trips to the loo?

And shitting yourself is less of a disruption to lessons?

BarbarianMum:

I don't know. I am not a doctor. What I do know is that every child I went to school with could do it. Every child I teach (bar those with medical issues) is able to do it. I have said no to countless children - not one has ever soiled themselves in my lesson. So clearly it is something most people are capable of.

What a ghastly thing to have happened. I hope the poor kid is OK.

When I was at school it was only identified pisstakers who were not allowed to use the loo.

There is no way this teacher wouldn't have been able to see the child was desperate. I'm gobsmacked by the amount of people on this thread who expect the child / parent to have somehow foreseen the stomach bug (as I assume it was) and not send them to school - have you never had a stomach bug?

I'm lucky enough to have never soiled myself in public but I've certainly had urgent toilet needs, and have near-enough wet myself on a few occasions. It's a real fear of mine.

The child absolutely deserves an apology from the teacher, and if it were my child I'd be raising merry hell to get the policy changed to allow teachers to use their discretion, if that was the problem. It is madness to have such an inflexible policy!

EduCated:

I have taught thousands of lessons. No-one has done this.

Teacher refused to let me leave a games lesson, I realised my period had started and she said no I had to finish the game of hockey. When my legs were covered in blood she relented. Teachers get it wrong, I think my teacher was more upset than I was. I never had a problem with PE teachers after that but I do think if teachers get it wrong they should apologise. I would also advise children to leave a lesson if their need is urgent.

And yes, of course the teacher would have left if they'd been on the verge of shitting themselves, even if it meant leaving the class unattended, anyone would!

chuffing hell. its discusting. im mad just reading this.

i get that teachers would get pissed off at pupils leaving for the sake just to toss a class off, but for a kid to soil / wee themselves is really not acceptable. id be mortified.

my dd is 7, she has regular water infections (with bleeding) recently had 1 teacher refuse her to go for a wee, she come out in tears and wet herself in the car.

this really makes me mad.

id be wanting an apology from the teacher personally. poor kid.

nothing helpful to add, its just terrible.

How long are the lessons? It's a little hard to credit that a healthy teenager, who didn't need the toilet at the start of a 40 minute lesson, would be so unable to hold on till the end of the lesson that they actually shit themselves?
It's a standard policy, or every class would be complete anarchy.

Trifle, have you ever had a stomach bug? It happens you know, sudden need for loo can happen to anyone.

Flogging, again, have you never had diarrhoea?!

It's fucking awful, imagine an adult at work being told they can't go to the toilet when they need to? Not everyone can wee and poo at set times, do people really not understand that the urge to go can come at any time.

Fucking ridiculous

Morphene

"How do I explain to her that not only do you have to ask to go to the toilet, but the person in authority over you may deny you"

Surely this isn't that difficult a discussion to have. There are many jobs where you need to ask a supervisor's permission/wait until a break so she may encounter it eventually even if you continue to Home School her.

Meanwhile although I feel badly for the poor child in the OP, the point of the thread is that this is shocking because it's a rare occurrence.

grannytomine:

Of course I have. I stay off school if I can't control my bowels. I have never had to run out of a lesson for a poo. I have never lost control of my bowels in my lesson. No child I teach has ever done this either. It is something that must happen, I concede that.

That it absolutely appalling.

I would be putting in a formal complain against the teacher for not having the ability to discern between real need and playing up. They manage it quite nicely in my daughter's primary.