Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

*Offred:

Obviously if a member of school staff was shown to be negligent in terms of their care of your DD, they ARE accountable. No-one is suggesting that your DD should be allowed to run out into the street.

No, she was the only one there. They deliberately opened two doors with electric locks and buzzers just for her. There is no excuse for that IMO. Even if there had been someone else there and she had just got out through both of the doors they would be legally responsible if she had got hurt.

That sounds like very very strange behaviour Offred. Did they say why they chose to do that?

"Even if there had been someone else there and she had just got out through both of the doors they would be legally responsible if she had got hurt". Indeed they would which is precisely why we prefer children to be in classrooms and under proper supervision.

Offred:

Why did she do that?

What did you do about it?

Offred

It's pretty ironic that teachers feel they can dole out advice about medicine but parents cannot have opinions about schools...

Is it ironic in the same way that those that have never been a teacher can "dole out advice" about teaching?

And yes I have reported it above the school and no, no-one cares. Her school is terrible and has seriously neglected her but that is another story.

DS's school is on the whole great. In my dealings with both schools I have always worked with them and am continuing to work with the primary re DD who still has issues. I have not been unreasonable, they have, and this has been confirmed by a number of people in official positions who have praised my ability to remain calm and continue to work productively with school despite a series of serious and dangerous failings on their part and not just with DD - they allowed a drunk parent to pick up a reception child recently and he was only stopped in the car park getting into his car by other parents because he was falling down drunk. But still no-one has ever held them to account despite it all being reported officially, so I do know that some schools and some teachers and some local authorities have issues, just as I know most schools try their best for children.

Offred:

Who did you report it to? Why did the receptionist let her out?

She did it because it is highly likely she has ASD but though I have raised concerns with school since she was in reception the school had given me various incorrect information such as 'there are no problems in school' 'no, you can't speak to the SENCO' 'no she can't even be assessed because there are no problems' etc and rather than acknowledging her sensory and communication difficulties they have punished her for years so she is now severely phobic about school but when she was still going they refused to put anything in place in terms of support because 'she has no issues'. That's why she ran away.

And then they lied to the LA when I asked them to investigate it and told them there had been no issues in school and it was all problems at home. Yes, after she ran away and they let her out.

Trifle: Walk out. BUT I would advise them that I would support whichever punishment for that the teacher deemed fair. My child should go at break or lunch.

In the situation they need to walk out and discuss whether punishment is appropriate or not later. DS is a very timid child and would quite possibly not disobey a teacher if he needed to, even with my permission; but it's worth giving in case it helps. That's what I mean by advising him to walk out, not saying he can waltz off to the loo any time he feels like a break from the lesson.

I don't know how a teacher could detect the state of a child's bowels with such accuracy as to know they could have and didn't go at break time; so punishment for a one-off incident would seem unreasonable to me. On the other hand if there are more than one-off incidents how can you rule out an undiagnosed medical condition? I don't know the answers; on the whole I would expect you need to punish for demonstrated wrongdoing (spotted on phone during lesson time; found behind the bike sheds having a chat) rather than possibilities or probabilities.

And then the LA refused to discuss it with me because they had had an explanation from school.

Offred:

I wasn't asking why she tried to leave school (although if a child is determined to leave it can be more harmful all things considered to stop them than to allow this - it depends on the situation). I am asking why the receptionist let her out.

catkind:

I was telling you what I would do, not what I expect you to do. If my child was desperate enough to leave the lesson and wasn't ill, I would support the punishment, no question. It is important to me that my DD respects her teachers and school rules. In the long run this is to her benefit.

And they maintained no problems until social worker called a CIN meeting then they listed numerous problems that had occurred over her whole school year despite never having mentioned any of them to me at the time even though I was coming in to meetings with the teacher/head/assistant head all that time. And when they were sent assessments to complete they filled them in and they came back the same ASD traits in school as at home but they still maintained she had no issues at School. Had to be told by the paed twice to refer to speech and Lang, OT and ed psych and still maintained she had no issues.

She has now been out of school for the entire academic year and they have been forced to accept she does have issues and I am now working with the SENCO and the LA.

There are so many examples though, they were invited to an attendance panel and didn't come, only I did....

The receptionist has not given an answer as to why she was let out. When they were asked to respond they said there had been no issues in school.

Speech and language were assessing her at the time and the therapist followed her to make sure she was ok and then came in my house to talk to me. Her professional opinion was that it was a massive safeguarding failure.

Offred:

I don't think it's good enough that you weren't given an explanation, but if the LA are satisfied that no-one was negligent and that there is an explanation, then that isn't the same as not being accountable. Obviously you should know what that explanation is.

Ed psych got the referral and had to fit her in as an urgent case immediately because she couldn't understand how things had got so bad before she was referred.

I have requested and been given copies of the emails between the LA and school. The conversation went -LA - we have had x report, school - we are aware that there are issues at home but there have been no concerns at school, LA - thanks for the information. And then to me - we have spoken to the school and they have explained the situation to our satisfaction. That's why I got hold of the emails and they showed the school lying.

Everyone involved does now believe my side of things and the school is now taking it very seriously and things are now moving forward positively between me and the SENCO but I don't believe that is a satisfactory investigation into what happened TBH. At the moment I am more concerned about helping DD who has been left with significant issues as a result than pushing for it to be investigated.

Inspired by another thread which is running on here at the moment (and as there are quite a few teachers on this thread i thought i would ask ) what is in place at the schools you work at to help young carers.

I have consulted a solicitor and have retained all the evidence and they believe there is a good case to sue, especially as for much of the time despite not having a diagnosis she did have DLA, but I do not believe that suing the LA would help things.

School had not even recorded the issue BTW, the only reason they are now listening to me is because the speech and language therapist witnessed it.

Sympathy all round
BUT
Teachers are put under immense pressure from managers NOT to let students leave the classroom . Parents need to lobby their headteachers en masse to change their schools' policies .
Good luck
99.8% of requests to leave the classroom are erroneous .
They nearly always occur during the first five minutes of a class which means the student has just had a substantial break .
Students regularly plot with friends to try and get loo breaks at the same time .
I have turned down hundreds of requests and never winessed an accident .
If a child has grounds for needing breaks it is known about in advance so there is no issue .
If you're a teacher under pressure , under scrutiny and being held accountable and one of your class is caught out of lesson up to no good you feel humiliated and are subject to wrist slapping . Is it any wonder teachers say no .

Did the receptionist think she was leaving with the therapist do you think? Opening two security doors seems a really strange thing to do.