Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

Universitychallenging

I didn't say that all children make it up.

I am asking what would you do if the school said he was using your rules to get out of lessons?

Leaving lessons without permission where I work is truanting.

i would only follow through with detentions if they were found to be using needing the loo as an excuse to avoid work.

*If my child did this because you hadn't allowed them to nip to the loo, she wouldn't be attending the detention either and I would discuss the consequences with the HT

Our HT would 100% support the class teachers decision*

And my DD still wouldn't be attending detention and the HT would be welcome to discuss it with me.

My DS wouldn't be going to do any detention. He had s specialists letter. Who the fuck does a class teacher think they are to over rule that ? Where did they do their medical training would be the question I would have asked.

DS never used the letter to get out of class so that question is moot.

I was never told he had done that.

He was very obedient. And wouldn't have defied a teacher. It was a really big deal to even get him to accept being different and having the toilet pass. He was embarrassed.

University, your DS would never be refused a toilet break or issued a detention with a specialists letter.

techteach my ds has on going issues with his GI tract. It escalated last week and he soiled himself - it was 30 mins after leaving school but still it could have occurred 30 mins earlier - I'd have supported him to the ends of the earth against a detention for leaving a class without permission...and I'd be appalled at any HT who decided a punishment for a distressing med condition was appropriate.

Has anyone said that children with medical conditions shouldn't be allowed to leave? Anyone?

No.

Because contrary to MN popular opinion, teachers don't tend to be cunts. We don't join the profession because we hate children.

I feel really sorry for the child in the OP. I really do. I highly doubt the teacher did it on purpose.

Seriously. The level of outrage and absolute disgust about "teachers" as a body is remarkable.

Universitychallenging

Its a hypothetical question, I am not saying that your son would do this, and as he has a note stating a medical need not being allowed to go to the toilet should never happen to him.

Lotta surely your DS's school are aware though and you have got him a toilet pass?
This is such a tiny issue in most schools yet seems to get a huge response. What about your child's right to a qualified teacher or to be in a class of less than 35? What about your child's right to funding and as good an education as pupils in other schools?
No? I will just tell my child to walk out to go to the toilet when ever they want to - not on the very very rare occasion they may genuinely need to.
How many of you here actually have children at secondary school that have actually soiled themselves - I have been teaching nearly 20 years and never known it happen (that's approx 6,000 students by the way)

Add message | Report | Message poster BoneyBackJefferson Sat 01-Apr-17 20:36:56
Universitychallenging

I didn't say that all children make it up.

I am asking what would you do if the school said he was using your rules to get out of lessons?

Leaving lessons without permission where I work is truanting.

^ that. That says a class teacher would tell me that my DS was malingering.

How the hell would they know when he has a letter from a specialist detailing a medical need? Where the fuck did they do their medical training to know more than a specialist?

No Smile but I am concerned given that I have no idea whether a GP would give a letter for DD needing more water when her inhaler dose is higher.

It isn't an issue now as her school let children go to the loo whenever they need.

And if a GP won't write a letter - I have no idea if this is a common side effect - the school will have to accept a letter from me explaining

Ok. Cards on the table.

DS got a toilet pass because age 14 he wet himself in a history class when the fucking cunting ball bag bastard didn't let him out to the toilet.

I had to go and get him and he was utterly broken. Pisshead became his nickname.

So. Fuck off with your detention if he leaves. It is completely and utterly inhumane to deny a child the toilet.

Jaques a letter from a parent is fine.

There are usually 3/4 in every year group who have toilet passes. Generally agreed after a convo with parents.

My teachers were absolute assholes about this when I was at school. Perfectly aware of my incredibly heavy and frequent periods, yet refused to let me change during lessons. I NEEDED to change hourly.

I eventually just stopped going in year 11 and only went in for exams. By that point I had flooded and stained so many chairs I couldn't take the humiliation and endless teasing. And it wasn't through lack of trying to get them under control.

I don't know what the answer is though. It ruined my school experience, destroyed my confidence even, but I do appreciate that so many kids do take the piss about leaving lessons to go to the toilet. I had the same issue in a different school sixth form, though at that point, I just walked out of lessons with my bag and went to the toilet.

Universitychallenging

How the hell would they know when he has a letter from a specialist detailing a medical need?

Because you would have told the school management and the school management would have informed the teachers

Smile that's reassuring thank you. It isn't a huge issue - probably only occurs once/twice a year but would be distressing for DD. And as distress can increase the asthma symptoms then something I am keen to avoid.

If they were aware Zaber, then that appalling to continue to refuse.

I volunteer at a primary school one day a week, currently helping with 9/10 year olds. They can go to the loo whenever they like and it is never a problem. I wonder why at 11 they become so untrustworthy? Teachers even leave classrooms at times, sometimes to check if the IT suite is available, sometimes to get something from staffroom that they need, probably sometimes to go to the loo. The children always seem to survive for the 2, 3 or 4 minutes they are alone.

Jaques - no worries. Head of Year/pastoral person is usually a good point of contact for that sort of thing - on top of a pass, they will usually be happy to send a reminder email during those times your daughter is likely to need to use it.

Apologies if my rant seemed directed at you. It was more a reaction to some of the sweeping teacher hate.

Smile not at all - I generally think teachers are smashing - as I said up thread, DD has been at school since she was 2 and I have never once even felt the slightest need to complain about anything a teacher does.

But it just seems desperately unfair that there are these absolute rules in some schools where I would prefer teachers to be allowed to let kids use the loo on a case by case merit.

Poor child they must be devastated! How awful.

School management didn't inform the teachers. Or at least. That is what the teacher claimed. Communications can fail.

And in that situation I told Ds to go to the toilet whenever he needed and if there was an issue to tell the teacher concerned to ring me immediately.

And not one shiny shit do I give if that caused any teacher to suspect my DS was swinging the lead

Granny, teachers are liable if something happens to a child why they have left the room. This is one of the reasons i don't leave them, this also applies to children going toilet, which is why unless they have a medical problem i usually say no, and dont take risks.

Children are not denied access to toilets at school. They have times in the day when they need to go to the toilet. Imagine 30 children deciding they dont want to waste their lunch break to go to the toilet and deciding to go during the next lesson instead. There is more than one child in that class.

Children with medical conditions have a toilet pass.
Children who have a temporary issue can have their parent phone up and get a temporary toilet pass.
Girls who have heavy periods that would need more toilet break should see their gp can have a toilet pass.

Should 6 boys who were playing football all lunch and didnt want to stop to pee and decide they are desperate the next lesson be told sure? Go?! As that is massively disruptive.

There are signs at my childrens swimming school telling parents to make sure their children go to the toilet before the lesson starts as having an accident in the pool could stop lessons for the rest of the day and getting out to go to the toilet causes disruptions to the lesson. In secondary school, where no medical conditions, long-term or temporary, are present why can a child not be expected to go during breaks?

There is not just your child in a school. There could be 1000-1500. Are people seriously suggesting that number of children should be allowed to walk out of classes at any point?