Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

We could have afforded to fly long haul when the children were young, but we collectively thought it would be unfair on other passengers, as we didn't know how they would behave, how they would tolerate it. So we chose to holiday in the U.K. which has proved to be amazing.

Before DS & DD arrived we experienced a flight with a baby crying continuously, trust me after 4 hours of none stop crying, we were questioning whether we were fit to be potential parents. Made worse by the fact we'd paid for seats advertised as adults only.

I think parents owe it to fellow passengers to be considerate. In my opinion the Mother shouldn't have taken up 2 seats sleeping. This obviously meant toddler constrained to Grandmothers lap, kicking the seats and so on. You plan entertainment in advance, if you're going to fly long haul with a young child.

Obviously there's a poster with excuses why a baby/toddler would 'have' to fly long haul.

I'm glad I never wish to fly again, as some people's attitudes, that they're hard done by because they're the parent, taking said small child transatlantic. How is it my problem that your child can't behave? How is it my problem that I'm being disturbed by your child.

I'm sure I've read of parents making concessions by creating comfort packs, for the seats in front and behind, with a little note apologising for any inconvenience that might be caused. That's the least you can do really. Ear plugs can be bought in bulk from B&Q, as can other bits and bobs, to negate the impact a bit.

We've done long car journeys with 2 children, at various ages, no opportunity to get up and walk about unless stopping for a break. They managed to cope fine, I was prepared for all eventualities, some may say lucky you, but it's obvious our sanity relied on the children's behaviour, during occasions such as traffic jams which were tedious for all involved.

It makes me sad that people have this, 'well what do you expect?' attitude. I'm sure many would reply manners and courtesy. At least an apology, rather than building your own victim complex that you're the poor soul with the small child. (From the post that stated she was ready to let rip at the woman tutting!)

On a lighter note, OP, if you encounter this again, with a sole child being allowed to run riot, get a couple of packs of condoms from a vending machine, offer it as a gift to the parents for future passengers sanity. If they offer no apology, at the end of the flight offer it in a cheap gift bag with a note, saying, a mere suggestion seeing as you were unable to control the behaviour of your child/children on this flight, for the sanity of future passengers you may encounter. Have a happy holiday.

archeryannie on the question of ableism: would you be ok with your rest being disturbed on a plane by a disabled person if the noise was a feature of their disability? (I have family members like this for e.g.) or should they not fly as they might disturb you/ trigger a migraine? My point is- this is about competing needs.

If the parents had been awake and doing their utmost to amuse and keep child quiet, I'd have given a sympathetic look and smiled to acknowledge their efforts and how difficult it is. In the scenario you describe, I think I would have had a go. But in a very British 'I know how difficult it is etc but please could you try to stop child doing x, y and z'.

Standing on their seat trying to play pepo with people behind is fine, you can close your eyes and ignore - kicking your seat you cant -don't be how you were so patient.
For a time airlines put in games in the headrest which involved lots of poking, spent (thankfully) a day flight being poked in the head, moving my chair back and forth until they got message - I wasn't happy!

I had to go to Miami with my daughter who was 15 months old. It was hell. But very kind people around me helped me to calm her just when I needed it. Both ways. I don't know who those people are - they disappeared before I could properly thank them. I do know that they had kids of their own and saw me struggling and for that I will be forever thankful. Not everyone is a douche about kids on a long haul flight. Some are quite simply angels.

The flight is done... the toddler was probably trying to calm his own nerves by acting out in that way. Unreasonable of the parents, yes.

Simple solution. Wake up the mother and suggest (demand) you swap seats. Then you'll have 2 seats and she'll have to put with the kicking.

They shouldn't have let the kid kick the seat that's unreasonable. But generally I do feel sorry for parents that fly with small children as it's hard work.. and sometimes you have to fly with kids not because of a holiday but because of work/ family matters

Is that the sequel to 'Snakes on a Plane'? !

I have flown quite frequently with my 2 children, long haul and short haul as we have family in India, most recently a 4 hour flight with the two of them by myself. They are 3.5 and almost 2. The looks I got in the airport, people were clearly thinking "I hope they don't sit anywhere near me!" But you know what? My kids behaved. Because I know what it's like to have to put up with other people's kids on the plane so I put all my energy into keeping them occupied and quiet. No they are not angels, and we had a few teary, whingy moments, but probably a maximum of 5 minutes in total. It's exhausting, but there's no way I would just go to sleep and let them run riot. People actually said to me on both flights "weren't they good?" Surprised much? Some kids can actually be controlled by their parents, I'm not sure if they had been monsters they would've said to me "my god, your kids were awful!" 😂

Not really competing 'needs' though is it. Like other posters, we didn't take DD on a plane until I knew she was old enough to behave (so could talk and understand bribery/ concept that only a couple of hours and here's a lollipop type thing as opposed to little angel obv). I didnt take her long haul or overnight for another couple of years after that. I didn't assume my 'need' for a holiday, trumped everybody else's right to a peaceful flight. Assuming that travel is for holiday (as vast majority of toddler travel is recreational rather than funerals/ moving country- I do appreciate this is different), as a parent you can't then just say "what do you expect they're a baby/ toddler" when you made that decision to take that child on a metal tube with hundreds of other people. Take responsibility!
YANBU- I'd have told them off myself/ or the grandmother/ mother or cabin crew. Shouldn't be your problem.

So difficult. Some toddlers are just impossible. You could politely ask the gran if she's having difficulties and would like you to mind the toddler for a while to give her a break. This would either embarrass her into controlling the toddler or give her a break so that she felt strong enough to stop the toddler bugging you.

I would just like to take this moment to apologise to all the people on the plane from Tel Aviv to London about 9 years ago. I was looking after my 3 year old son and had been up all night and I just completely passed out. I just couldn't keep awake any more. I believe he spent the hour crying, kicking and generally being a pain, judging by the looks I got when I revived. Lots of very cross Orthodox Jews. Sorry!

TheCaptainsCat I'm in full agreement . I have three sons and two step daughters and when we fly it's like a military operation . It's not fun or relaxing but we've had people come up to us once on a flight to Spain and tell us they admire how much of a handle we had on the kids all through the flight. It's a mammoth task but worth it . If anyone had a snide look my way on a flight I know it's that "entitled" attitude rearing its ugly head (often aimed at families with young children, yet often comes from people who JUST LOVE when a toddler throws a paddy! The head shaking and muttering must give them a superiority boost)
OP it sounds to me like the parents in this situation were in the wrong . They should have sacrificed their snooze inorder to occupy their child . It's common curtesy . 🌸

On my honeymoon flight (14 hours!!) a baby literally screamed the entire time & the poor mother was at her wits end, the air hostesses even got involved to try and help the woman calm the poor baby down - each of them taking turns to walk up & down with this screaming kid. In that situation I didn't notice anyone complain as we could all see how helpless it was. In contrast a short 1 hour flight over to Germany & two young kids around 5/7 ish in age literally began to kick my seat from the moment I sat down. I let it slide for the first 10 mins until it got straight up ridiculous & (in all honesty) asked the mother very politely if she could have a word - to which the arrogant cow responded, no I won't, they are kids so that's just what they do. My mum who was travelling with me said, excuse me I'm a mother of 3 & we travelled all over the world on planes with our kids & relatives kids & it's a parents responsibilitiy to at least try & stop their kids disturbing people. The woman turns around & calls my mum an old lady who needs to butt out (all in front of her kids!!). My response to her was to clap and say, well done, great parenting, you're obviously raising your kids to be as arrogant and nasty as you.

I'd have asked the cabin crew to move me or wake the parents up to get the child under control.

Like any parent I've had to try and contain my children and pacify them and this can be very hard! But I am constantly shocked by people who are sooo entitled! There is no way I would allow my children of any age to disrupt fellow passengers! If that ever happens again ask the air stewards to swap you with the father who can enjoy his own child's antics!! When my children wailed as kids do when they are little I would do my very best to pacify them. Most people, however annoying the noise might be, appreciate the fact you are doing your best - it doesn't sound like the best effort possible was being made here. Well done you for being so patient!

This happened to me recently but it was my toddler kicking someone else seat, we are on a 1hr internal flight in the way home. He had done a 1hr internal 10hr international outbound and 10hr flight on the way home he is DS2 the international and domestic flights were not the same day and we had been told on the first 3 by many passengers that they would not have known we had kids with us they were so good. But for some reason he just lost the plot we were on an easyJet flight so space was tight we physically restrained him (DH holding his legs and me his arms him but he screamed blue murder when we did the minute we let him go the kicking resumed nothing we did worked the people in front of me were equally annoyed with the screaming as they were the kicking and I had no idea what to do.

We've done a few long haul flights to & from Barbados with our daughter. She last flew 4 weeks ago on a return flight to the UK. She was 2 years 9 months on our return & as a parent it's my responsibility to ensure she is occupied and not annoying other travellers. I pack the iPad pre loaded with little YouTube videos she likes, I take colouring books and snacks and won't let her kick seats or annoy other people. On our return flight she was awake for the first couple of hours, slept for about 5 and then awake for another couple of hours and the annoying circling we had to do due to bad weather. I don't sleep even though I'm shattered as I don't want her falling off the seats. On our outward flights to Barbados she rarely sleeps but we entertain her, get up and walk about with her & I always, always say to those sat near us, if she is trying to talk to you & you don't want to please say so, we won't be offended. Fortunately, we've been complimented every time we've travelled but I put part of it down to an easy child and the other part to the planning I do in advance.

I've been just paid £3200 for 2 flights to Washington DC. Staggered to discover that to reserve a seat it's £70 each one way that's £280 added to the cost (£40 in economy)
This is with BA although nearly all airlines do the same. Someone suggested I borrow a toddler, not reserve seats and place the toddler in a seat far away from DH and me and then let the cabin crew sort it out

Might some people who don't want to talk to your DD feel a bit awkward about telling you that? From experience I can say that parents often don't take kindly to you not wanting to talk/pull faces at their child

I have two extremely boisterous boys but at no point would I allow them to kick/hit the chair in front. It's pretty rubbish trying to contain your child on a plane but that's kind of the deal which you agree to when you decide to fly with them. Nightmare! xx

No kid should be kicking seats..... on planes, trains , buses or cinemas!!!!
The parent/ guardian should have told the child to stop.
For the people who believe children should be still and quiet on a plane..... Really???? You can't odds a kid having a tantrum. You can't make a child be satisfied and entertained by the myriad of books/colouring/programmes you've provided as there will 9/10 be something you have overlooked that little Johnny normally wouldn't look twice at!!!!
Most of us are trying our best, flying with kids isn't fun in fact it fills me with dread 😲

I recently flew to Austria and there was the equivalent of the NCT branch annual skiing holiday - there were approx 16 toddlers on the flight!! Some parents were wandering up and down the aisle with toddler and oblivious to cabin crew trying to serve people. I jokingly said to cabin crew on leaving 'can you get child-free flights?' I do get annoyed with kicking my seat and adults can be as bad as children. I did tell off one lady as I have just recovered from serious back pain. I can manage to sit quietly without thumping the seat in front of me - why can't others do the same? It goes for parents as well as grown-ups!

YANBU at all. Been there, done it, with entertaining toddlers/ young 'uns on long haul flights and actually I ALWAYS expected to be judged if they were to play up and rightly so. Which is why we were armed with colouring, cards, books (thank God for the cabin crew that plied me with extra mini bottles of wine for that one) etc. etc. The notion of our kids being irritating to others just wasn't an option. Sure, things happen, younger went through a phase of getting air sick on descent after long haul - not nice for people around at all. But my experience has been that people are generally lovely & accommodating when they understand you're doing your best. This family clearly wasn't.

I have 2 favourite memories of getting stroppy - once when on an overnight flight, having got our 2 young ones to sleep in economy, a grandparent pushes through the curtain from business class, proudly walking her cherub grandson down the aisle (he'd be just walking, she was holding him up by both hands). Proud as punch she was, except this was 2am, cabin was blacked out for sleep & he was shouting & banging on arms of passengers in aisle seats... As I saw him heading for younger DD, I pulled myself up to my full 5ft 3inches & hissed in the grandparent's face 'REMOVE THAT CHILD FROM THIS CABIN'. Called over cabin crew & pointed out that business class wouldn't like it if us oiks started strolling around their space, so no double standards please!
Second was when we had the unexpected pleasure of a group of loud teenagers joining us in the premium economy BA cabin, whatever it's called. Slumped on the floor in the front, passing round drinks like it was some house party. Again, involved cabin crew to get them reseated to their own seats.

Bottom line is, it IS difficult travelling with little ones. It's not them being irritating that's so much the issue, it happens, but parents not stepping up to resolve problems most definitely is.

We had this on a flight to Florida. A family of mum and dad, 3 kids and grandparents, the grandparents and a little one were sat behind us, the parents & two other kids further over. The little one kept kicking the back of our seats. My partner had a bad back to start with, and that wasn't helping on a long haul flight. Polite requests to the grandparents did nothing. Til l demanded they swap seats with us, so we could kick the back of their seats for the remainder of the flight. The dad came over and moved the little one, and put one of the older kids in the seat.
We didn't actually want them to move. Just for the grandparents to exercise a bit of commonsense and manners and stop the little one kicking the seat!