To ask my ex for more maintenance??

[Cactus76]

My first time posting here... I'll try to be succinct AND to include as much background as possible.

I left my husband nearly 8 years ago. It wasn't exactly an amicable split at the time. Our DS was 3. As we lived in the same city, he spent time with both of us, but slightly more with me. Because we were sharing care of our DS, we didn't bother with any formal maintenance, I just let him know each month how much I'd spent on childcare and anything else such as school shoes etc and he'd pay me half.

I have a new partner now, been together since not long after the split and now married and have a DD and DS together. After about 2 years we decided to relocate for many reasons and moved to a rural county 2.5 hours away by train. Our DS stayed with me. I felt very very guilty about taking him away from his dad and I didn't ask for any maintenance. Shortly after this my ex lost his job and was out of work for a good 2+ years, so obviously maintenance wasn't something we did. Although we live further away, I always facilitate contact when my ex requests it.

My ex is now working again and has been for 2-3 years. Shortly after he found a job I asked for some contribution and he set up a DD for £250 a month. Better than nothing. So, here's the issue. My OH is getting really irritated by this amount. I don't know what my ex is earning, but I know it will most likely be in excess of £80K. My OH pays his ex the best part of £2K per month in maintenance as calulated by his earnings. He also sees them every other weekend and pays for swimming lessons and other normal stuff (not a hero, just like he should!). If we went down the CSA route, I know we'd be 'entitled' to far more. Although we are reasonably comfortable, things are tight at times. My OH has no issues with supporting my son and he's lovely about it, but at the same time I think it's a matter of principle for him that my ex should be contributing more to his own son. I still feel guilty that I've separated my DS and his dad and know that if we hadn't moved they'd see more of each other so maintenance would be less any way. I also know, for a fact, that this coversation won't go well if I do approach him, he's not the easiest or most pleasant of chaps, hence the fact I'm no longer with him... So, WIBU to ask him for more? Am I being grabby, or just asking a father to do what he should be doing?? Agh!!

[CaseyAtTheBat]

If you are actually owed more, then get more.
But accept the idea that it isn't the responsibility of the nrp to pay for all kinds of costly things for the child that they have no control over. For example, if you choose your child to have piano lessons and a skiing holiday and a personal tutor, that would all be your choice, not necessities and not for their father to automatically pay for.

If your DH chooses to pay a lot more for his children then that is great, good for him. But it doesn't mean he gets to decide what other people should pay.

Just do it officially and get what your child is properly entitled to.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

I'm really not saying that he should compensate us buying a 5 bed house, I'm really not. Honestly!! I only mentioned that as it's part of the hidden cost of raising him.

It isn't a hidden cost of raising him.

Your ex is only responsible for your DS. Not others.

[Allthebestnamesareused]

I think you need to almost put aside the guilt you feel about taking DS away from ex as that is what led to you being overgenerous with him when not working. I do however believe it should be for the party that moved away to deliver the child to the other nr parent and collect as it wasn't by their doing that you moved.

If you had agreed a figure at the time of the split commensurate with his earnings it would be less of an issue now.

If you go direct to the CSA without first having spoken to him you may find it opens up all sorts of ill feeling. Not saying it will be easier to renegotiate a deal direct. I would perhaps print off the calculation from CSA or whatever name they go by now and use that as a negotiating tool. Perhaps saying that you'd accept £500 a month. If he ends up being a dickhead about it you can obviously go CSA route then. Again during the negotiation mention that you didn't puruse anything for the time he didn't contribute at all.

It must be annoying for your DH to pay what he has to (as he should) but be supporting a child whose Dad is not doing the same.

As well as the activities, food and clothing of course a proportion of household expenses are attributed to your child such as water, electricity, housing costs etc (ie. basic living costs). I wouldn't go down the itemised route yet as (as people have said) some of those items may be lifestyle choices.

Just go on the basic CSA calculates on your potential earnings it should be £650 but I'd accept £500 how do you feel about that exH? Let him explain what it is he earns and why he shouldn't stump up more rather than you.saying why he should.

PS. I am a mum and step Mum and as a couple we have paid maintenance to DH's son (DSS), at some points to my exH for my DS and then we have one together. The amounts paid (and received) have not always been equal and may not necessarily be deemed on mumsnet as fair but luckily on each occasion they have been agreed between the parties without too much pain other than seeing the amount leave your account but deep down we have all done right by the kids including my DH paying my son's (his DSS's) rent through uni (without there being any form of court order or onus to do so). Indeed he was the one who suggested it to make it affordable for DS (his DSS) to go.

Good luck. You do sound very sensible and I am sure you'll reach an agreement providingex isn't too much of an arse He may deep down know he is underpaying and hopefully he will have sensible friends to whom he can confide and seek advice from.

[Cactus76]

Apache - thank you! I think my DH is nice too! I've been surprised by people indicating that I'm being controlled by him and shouldn't take his feelings into account...

[Cactus76]

Allthebest - thank you. What you've said makes perfect sense. I think that one of the reasons I've not gone down the CSA route is that I'm not looking for every penny I can get, just a fairer reflection.

[MadMags]

This issue is that you seem to want an increase because your living expenses are higher now.

But they're higher because you married a man who pays out an obscene amount of spousal maintenance, you chose to have more children, and you chose to move to a bigger house.

None of this is your ex's responsibility.

On the other hand, maintenance should be calculated as a percentage of earnings.

So, technically, YANBU for wanting it, but YABU for why you want it.

[Cactus76]

Casey - I understand your point that there are a lot of things that aren't necessities, but why shouldn't he be expected to contribute towards them? I want my DS to have access to as many opportunities as possible hence the variety of after school activities. My ex has actually thanked me for the effort I go to in organising these and driving him to and fro. DS has dyslexia and major problems with his working memory so he really struggles with basic literacy and numeracy. He will almost certainly need a tutor when he starts at secondary school. Again, why shouldn't his father be expected to contribute towards that. He, as much as I do, wants the best for DS and for him to be helped where possible.

[Underthemoonlight]

I get 140 a month we take alternate weeks on school dinner money and half on costs of activities which is agreed seperately. Maybe look at doin something similar or your ex meeting half the costs of a chosen activity

[Cactus76]

Madmags - I'm really not sure where I've said that I want more because we have a more expensive lifestyle???

[Cactus76]

Moonlight - good idea! I know that exH would like to know exactly where his money is going (which is fair enough).

[kimann]

I think you should just go down the official route and don't feel bad about it - you have already mentioned that your ex is hard to talk to. Perhaps that will make things clearer for him and you. And if he has a good paying job now, it won't be an issue for him.

I do feel a little bad for him though - you moved so far away to be closer to your now DHs kids/new job so ex has lost out on spending time with his son. In all of his - it's your son that will lose out the most.

Good luck OP - I hope you get the outcome you want.

[CaseyAtTheBat]

Because you can't just spend someone elses money without any input from them! If he is, as you say, happy for the kid to do those things and agrees to pay half, then great. But you can't expect to give your child a very expensive lifestyle and then just get half of everything you want to spend, thats crazy.
It's like this: you are both responsible to feed and clothe the child for example. But if you decided that only designer clothes and the most expensive organic foods were good enough, you couldn't spend 500 a week instead of 50 and then demand 250 given to you.

[MadMags]

You wouldn't want more if you hadn't moved house, if you hadn't had more kids, and if your OH wasn't pissed off because he's forking out £2k a month.

That's where I'm getting it!

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

and we're much closer to my OH's children too.

So you moved your DS away from his DF for your now DH to be closer to his DC?

[needsahalo]

Your husband has to be earning about 200k+ to be paying the figures in spousal and child support you quote, and has 4 children. Is he so bothered by the costs for your child?

isn't not really the point, is it? Child maintenance should be paid at the legal minimum required, no questions asked. There may well be the odd exception, based on understanding between the parents concerned, but it is not unreasonable of a new partner to expect the ex to contribute at the legal minimum.

[Cactus76]

In all honesty, underlying a lot of this is the fact that exH was a controlling abusive shit who couldn't give a toss about DS or paying his way for DS even when we were together (my new DH paid off the credit cards I'd run up whilst on Mat Leave as exH wouldn't give me any extra money whilst I wasn't earning / earning SMP). It was only when I left that he decided he wanted to be a dad. So, a huge chunk of this is basss on principle, not the fact that our life is more expensive now. But maybe I need to do a bit more soul-searching / reflection on exactly what this is about.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

my new DH paid off the credit cards I'd run up whilst on Mat Leave as exH wouldn't give me any extra money whilst I wasn't earning / earning SMP

When did you start seeing DH then ?

[MadMags]

That's quite a drip feed!

[Cactus76]

After I split up with exH, but before we divorced (it took as a couple of years to get around to divorce). I still hadn't paid off my cards when we got together so he paid them off for me.

[Cactus76]

Is it really relevant to my question though Mags? I thought not originally.

[kimann]

maybe you do OP.

[MadMags]

I'm not sure if it's relevant, you chose to divulge it so you must think so!

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

who couldn't give a toss about DS

Yet he spent nearly the same amount of time with you both when you lived in the same city.

It is a bit confusing.

[Quartz2208]

I dont think any of it is relevant - the spousal maintenance, you paying for two children of OH, your new two,the bigger house - all that matters is how much he should pay his son

The thing is at the moment he isnt paying enough for his child but that is all he is responsible for, all other factors and motivations are irrelevant. And I wonder if the real issue is that asking for more money might upset the status quo (i.e. he will realise that he will pay less if he sees him more)

[Cactus76]

Yes, Piglet, like I said he didn't give a toss until AFTER we seperated. After I left, he gradually built up the amount of time he had with DS. It started off being every other Sat night and then increased to about 3 nights a week as he came to the realisation that DS is quite a cool person to be around!