To not understand the Tony Blair hatred thing

[smashedinductionhob]

I remember Tony Blair being very popular in his day and recall him doing reasonably good things.

I do remember very clearly the run up to the Iraq war and saying to my husband that I did not agree with it as there was no actual plan and the US public seemed to think Saddam Hussain was connected to 9/11 which he wasn't.

I remember passionate supporters of ethnic minorities in Iraq supporting him and only a few brave clever people like Obama calling it as a mistake.

I failed to demonstrate. The dossier was identified in Parliament (by a small minority) as dodgy before the war started but most of us went along with it.

It was clear to me at the time that the PM was supporting the US as a matter of principle (a lousy principle but fairly obvious).

How did we get from there to TB as hate figure? Is he just a scapegoat?

Humphrey, ah! Of course! Yes, Kosovo.
yes, that was how he persuaded himself.....

He did nothing for the poor. Absolutely nothing. There was no help for me and others like me during his tenure.

Livia, why do you think he is a war criminal?

I liked a lot of the domestic policy introduced by Blair's New Labour.

It is eclipsed by his horrendous foreign policy decisions though.

Blairs determination to go into Kosovo is what stopped it becoming another Bosnia. And for that I am thankful. Bosnia was horrendous and its legacy is still being felt today. Kosovo was stopped before it started and that was down to Blairs Government at that time.

he put his own self interest ahead of anything
It was all about power

What? Do you mean that politicians would do something they believe is bad for the country just to stay in power?

Surely not

OP - I'm also pretty mystified by the hate. I see that with hindsight he made the wrong call re WMD and Iraq, but leaders have to make decisions. They don't always get them right. As others have said, while lots of people opposed the war in Iraq, a great many others saw it as a necessary evil. Decisions were taken with the backdrop of the unspeakable awfulness of Bosnia and Rwanda, where countries didn't intervene, leading to the most appalling atrocities.

I don't think retrospectively Blair helped the poverty trap.

People were given a hand out of the poverty trap by being trapped into welfare, in particular tax credits offering a fairly lucrative standard of living - as long as you had multiple children.

Meanwhile, young people who twenty years ago would have obtained work at a blue collar level instead found themselves at university, saddled with debt and without the means to buy a home.

Well done, Tone! Sloooow hand clap.

Andy Burnham is the worst kind of unprincipled populist politician. He did a Q and A at my daughters sixth form and I offered her £20 if she would ask him if he had splinters on his arse from sitting on so many fences. (Sadly she was too shy).

Where is he now eh, while things are so unsettled in the Labour Party? Off playing at mayor of Manchester and keeping his head down. No doubt he will swan back to Westminster when he can work out which will be the winning side.

Putting the Iraq war to one side, Blair's legacy is very poor indeed. He was the Prime Minister who caused more damage to the UK than any other in living memory. People say Thatcher ruined Britain, well if she did Tony Blair ran over the corpse to make sure it was dead.

Blair saw the British as a way for him to make money. He didn't give two shits about the people of Britain, but was very good indeed about giving the impression that he did. The results of his avarice are all too clear though to anyone who lives in or visits Britain today: a once-great nation that has ripped itself apart. A country laden with debt, where today's young cannot find a job but will be required to work longer than ever to receive less than their parents and grandparents.

I have no time for Blair. An enemy of his country, an enemy of anyone but the rich.

Well the Chilcot Report for starters.

I think the fact that he was the only chance that the Labour Party had to get into power was slightly depressing.

I think the hatred for him is just silly. I absolutely love Tony Blair; always have, always will. The country was far better under him than it has been since.

I (sadly) agree with every word, Lux

He's a war mongering wanker who was a tool of the US. And he still won't piss of into obscurity - he keeps popping up to spout shite

I think this ^ sums him up nicely.

Play so you weren't poor enough to start receiving tax credits or have your wages increased then?

No, he did very little for the poor. Tax credits only encouraged businesses to pay less and made workers dependent on the state.

Social mobility had come in long before Blair, but he helped end it. Introducing university fees was one way he did this. Instead, tax payers' money was thrown away on countless quangos and worthless causes.

It was all about spin. He helped erode trust in politics and politicians.

TCs got people out of one trap and straight into another.

I totally get people disliking him.

But having read what you all say, I think he is just a scapegoat.

Humphrey must be right about the God complex thing. He got vain. That doesn't make him a war criminal, which is very nasty.

And this:

"I think Tony Blair is this country's Hillary Clinton. It is an amazing victory of the right-wing press that they've managed so completely to convince so many people that the most successful recent left-of-centre prime minister is the devil incarnate."

Anyone who thinks that every British PM is not a tool of the US is sadly deluded. Perhaps they think "Love Actually" is a documentary?

When Blair was not constrained by the US (Kosovo, Northen Ireland) he proved himself to be anything but a war monger.

I'm convinced he's some kind of high functioning psychopath. Look at his eyes, completley dead. No remorse for what he did either. Didnt it get leaked fairly he recently that he was the main driving force for the war, rather than George Bush who it was widely believed to be?

I was homeless with children. I was very poor. There were no food banks or charities to help, I wasn't allowed to claim support AND maintenance from my ex like single parents can now. There were very few places that helped people in dire straits. Nothing like the support you get now. Under Blair if you struggled you were screwed

I don't understand the hate either. But then I'm not sure I agreed that he lied. I believe he thought the dodgy intelligence was more accurate than it was. I think he knows it was a fuck up but he didn't at the time and it took him too long to admit he fucked up.

I remember a bit in Alistair Campbell's memoirs where he says something about TB going along with Bush, we do the air strikes then TB and AC ask Bush and his advisors what the plan was and they basically said there was no plan of what to do once we'd gone in. He was a fool to trust Bush but I think most British PMs would have done the same. AC also mentions the importance of staying on the right side of the Americans to ensure their shared all intelligence with us.

As for other things, I remember reading at least 3 studies for Uni in the 90s all concluding that the more students we got to university, the wealthier and more productive we'd be as a nation. I'm also old enough to remember how poor families were truly living on the breadline before tax credits were introduced. That one initiative raised the standard of living for so many.

But then we all vilify Nick Clegg for going back on his promise over tuition fees. Yet we seem to forget that he effectively traded that for pupil premium which has made a massive difference to the lives of young children in deprived areas.

There does seem to be self-delusion involved. That tends to create a greater need for blame later...

I don't vilify NC. I have a soft spot for him. He's good looking too

But

I'm not totally sure I agree re PP - but I agree it's not a bad move.

There were certainly families on the breadline and it was a problem. I just don't feel TCs worked as a solution.

Only read the op but for me it was the war and I think you are very mistaken to say most of us went along with it. I was at the huge March in London, it was massive, the parliament vote was very close and big names left cabinet positions over it. That legacy will never leave him.