To not understand the Tony Blair hatred thing

[smashedinductionhob]

I remember Tony Blair being very popular in his day and recall him doing reasonably good things.

I do remember very clearly the run up to the Iraq war and saying to my husband that I did not agree with it as there was no actual plan and the US public seemed to think Saddam Hussain was connected to 9/11 which he wasn't.

I remember passionate supporters of ethnic minorities in Iraq supporting him and only a few brave clever people like Obama calling it as a mistake.

I failed to demonstrate. The dossier was identified in Parliament (by a small minority) as dodgy before the war started but most of us went along with it.

It was clear to me at the time that the PM was supporting the US as a matter of principle (a lousy principle but fairly obvious).

How did we get from there to TB as hate figure? Is he just a scapegoat?

Oh course he isn't a war criminal. Anyone with a half decent understanding of Middle East politics and history can tell you that. The Iraq war was inevitable, it was just a question of when it would take place. I get the feeling that people jump on the bandwagon of calling him a war criminal as that is the view of the popular press and it is extremely unpopular to try to justify the Iraq war.

As people have outlined above, his achievements in the UK were pretty impressive and have not been matched by any of his successors.

I was against the iraq war but overall I rate TB highly as a PM. I also really rate Gordon Brown.

Well, 'Tony Blair' is the ultimate champagne socialist. He made a small minority of his London-based friends very wealthy indeed (including himself) and impoverished the country at the same time. He also took us into a pointless war merely on the word of his mate, backing it up by pressuring his legal team to give dodgy advice.

I remember that, despite being right wing (small government) all my life, Blair seemed like a 'pretty straight sort of guy'. Then, Labour did a U turn on its ban on tobacco advertising at sporting events; turned out that Bernie had quietly given a £1mio political donation to Labour. So, bang went the feel good factor. Then Blair did pump vast quantities of money into the NHS, but without really controlling where it went. The vast majority of it went into health care inflation including enriching a vast swathe of health consultants (the management kind, not the medical kind) and ex nurses going into manager roles. Then labour decided for no special reason that 50% of people should go to university, degrading the cachet of a university education and, at the same time, making students take on a lot of debt to get these nearly worthless degrees.

And, of course, he loved the City as long as it paid lots of tax and he turned a blind eye to an increasingly concerned BofE...until of course, the shit hit the fan (conveniently, he had left at this point).

Oh, and finally, after he stepped down, he immediately left parliament, demonstrating his complete disdain for his position as a constituency MP. And he then completely ignored any propriety in almost immediately charging vast fees to help some of the dodgiest individuals on the entire planet.

What's not to like.....

Late in 2002 Lady Thatcher came to Hampshire to speak at a dinner for me. Taking her round at the reception one of the guests asked her what was her greatest achievement. She replied, "Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds." But in a very real sense that only happened between 1992 and 1997. The 1992 Labour proposition to the country was very different from the 1997 offering. And that was due to the defeat of 1992. The Conservative government of 1992-1997 by simply sitting there and existing forced Labour to change.

This is why I despise him, other than being a war criminal, he continued the neo liberal agenda that her and Reagan started, thats why there such unbelievable inequality in this country

On another note margaret thatcher is the only reason I regret being an atheist because Id love that bitch to be burning in hell

Late in 2002 Lady Thatcher came to Hampshire to speak at a dinner for me. Taking her round at the reception one of the guests asked her what was her greatest achievement. She replied, "Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds." But in a very real sense that only happened between 1992 and 1997. The 1992 Labour proposition to the country was very different from the 1997 offering. And that was due to the defeat of 1992. The Conservative government of 1992-1997 by simply sitting there and existing forced Labour to change.

This is why I despise him, other than being a war criminal, he continued the neo liberal agenda that her and Reagan started, thats why there such unbelievable inequality in this country

On another note margaret thatcher is the only reason I regret being an atheist because Id love that bitch to be burning in hell

I'm quite surprised some think the hate has been manufactured in the last couple of years. It's not true at all. Lots of people hated Blair before Iraq, during and after. He lied about Iraq, he lied about those stupid flats in Bristol, he lied all the time. I think the culture of spin and media manipulation he bought in is why so many voters are disaffected now. Because politicians say what people want to hear to get elected then do whatever the heck they want in power because "they have a mandate"
But the widening of university access was all about social mobility and about reskilling the population. And a massive amount of money was pumped into universities Actually the widening of university access was to improve unemployment rates and it worked. While at the same time devaluing degrees and putting an end to free higher education. Now most people go to university and graduates can't get jobs, but they have a nice debt to start life with.

I hated Blair well before Iraq. I didn't vote for him and could not understand why so many people would. He looked like a self serving smug champagne socialist and that is exactly what he is.

I haven't anything intelligent or balanced to add...but he was a loathsome tango tanned weasel who killed many of our troops in his own mission for power. Hideous little man. Twat.

Seriously, reading people's vitriol towards Blair in this thread is like reading rabid Trump supporters' judgments on Hillary. Bliar /Killary. WMD/Benghazi.

Yes much better to be a true socialist with no power at all.

Blair was voted back in as PM after the Iraq war debacle (not by me I might point out). So I am not sure why everyone claims to hate him now. A bit disingenuous imv.

He and his egotistical irresponsible government has led to the crap we are in and the sodding tories being able to run riot.

Every idiot knows that times of plenty are not for abuse. And there was abuse of that money including public money. I saw it.

I don't understand it either op. I think a fairly long term labour government was a very good thing.

Oh I also hate him for raising peter mandelson from whatever crypt he haunts

Yes, we can just drift further and further to the right with Theresa the God-Enlightened at the helm while all the left-wing congratulate themselves on their honest hatred of Bliar and support the weak man of principle who can't provide meaningful opposition. I'm sure Blair, like any politician, was no saint and I'm sure he made mistakes but what I'm seeing on this thread is the equivalent of "Lock her up!"

completely agree Sunset

crumbs we do have no right to bring around regime change - Hitler isn't a good comparison - he was the aggressor.
Regime change is down to the people who live in that country to decide that is what they want and to get a workable opposition in place - and it is possible - look at the French revolution and the Russian revolution.

Sadam wouldn't have been in power so long if the US hadn't funded him in his war against Iran. After the failed uprising in the early 90s the opposition was still not strong enough in 2003 - but I think it would have been by now.
And not only did we invade without a plan of what to do when Sadam was overthrown but there wasn't an opposition in Iraqi strong enough to take the country forward. And our actions managed to fuel dislike of the West - with certain sects seeing the new government as our puppets -guaranteeing more unrest.
Not helped by the fact we do 'nothing' about the Israeli/Palestine conflict...
The other points I think I have answered - I don't see things like the NMW as necessarily a good thing - it makes things more expensive so the cost of living rises and you are no better off at £7 an hour than you were on £5 - it isn't about the poorest being paid more -it is about how far what they are paid goes (and it does nothing for the discrepancy between rich and poor)
And a high NMW means everything we manufacturer is more expensive - we can't compete on the world stage so we have less manufacturing - less 'blue collar' employment opportunities.

There is no point having a degree if you end up doing what you would any way...you have just spent 5 yrs of your life running up debt, instead of gaining work experience and earning money -it puts you in a worse position than you would have been - right at the bottom of the ladder. And it means that all degrees are worth less ...and if you haven't got a degree (are not academic) you end up competing for a low/no skill job with someone who has....

I was so taken in by him at the time of New Labour. Not any more! Although the Tories would have supported the illegal war as well.

He took Major's credit for NI.
Bit of a narcissist. Well, a lot really.
War dossier which a child could see was "dodgy".
Allowed unconstrained immigration which has ultimately led to Brexit.
Selected a really bloody awful chancellor.

He was very able though, and not an idealogue therefore electable which seems to be a big problem for a lot of Labour supporters who prefer baying at the people who have to do the actual governing stuff to doing the actual governing stuff.

I left the Party over the war, as so many others did. That was just wrong, but some of this criticism is over the top. He did bring OAPs out of poverty, he did massively improve the NHS and schools, he did establish surestart centres and he did oversee the NI peace process. The country was 'impoverished' by a global crash.

Given the state of our current leadership, he looks godlike!

Major's credit for NI peace process? How?

It's become fashionable and a massive bandwagon to hate him all orchestrated by the Mail, the right, the deluded, the left and the self-righteous. How many people spent a single second thinking about Iraq 'before The War'. And after? It's just an excuse to be reactionary and brandish a big stick and do a lot of swearing.

The left now have no clue how to get, keep or use power. The right as always just want to help their mates and do alright for themselves. The rest of us are just pawns and electoral fodder. We do truly get the government we deserve

Wot birdsdestiny said: He won 3 elections and actually made a difference to those living in poverty, that's why the Labour party hate him, they hate being in power and the responsibility and compromises that entails. They are much happier when they have no power and can moan about the right wing media.

He won three elections outright and ran the most left wing governments this country had in the last 50 years.

People will eagerly leap up and rend their garments and insist that those governments weren't actually left wing at all though, really. And look. Fine, maybe you're right. But look at the defunding and the rise of poverty and the sheer horror that the past 7 years has brought on education, disabled people, the NHS.

Tony Blair wasn't fucking perfect but he was the best you were going to get. And if you can't see that - well, you're part of the reason we can look forward to ten more years of Theresa bloody May.

How many people spent a single second thinking about Iraq 'before The War'. And after?
Erm.....Lots of us who weren't young children at the time of the first Iraq war. Lots of us when 9/11 happened and it became apparent Bush was hellbent on vengeance. Lots of us listening to Claire Short, Robin Cook and Charles Kennedy opposing the war prior to the vote.
Ffs. Stop being so patronising.