To think this is child abuse

[Shelvesoutofbooks]

Warning as this is controversial.
Someone who I know (will try to keep it vague so I wouldn't out myself) has a child who recently ended up in a&e for passing out. This is the 4th time this happened in last 2 weeks but the child has had a fever so has been brought in to a&e. Said child is 3year old and weighs 8.5 kilo and is strictly fed an organic vegan diet. Child attends nursery 5 mornings a week for 3 hrs a day and has lunch there. A vegetarian nursery that has been given the instructions not to give the DC any dairy.

The DC is happy to eat meat and other animal products as when I saw the child at gatherings/parties it has eaten anything with the child's mother not saying anything. But still 98% of the time the child has an extremely healthy diet. (I am very certain of this as)

When the child was brought to a&e and the doctor questioned why the DC was underweight so much the mother simply claimed the child was a fussy eater and refuses to eat. When asked what kind of diet the child has she said everything and that the child is an omnivore.

Now, this was a lie. I was gobsmacked when I heard her say it but didn't want to ask why she was lying.

So far they diagnosed the child with anemia and the child is undergoing dozens of other test to find out "why it refuses to eat". When given some food in the hospital by nurser child happily ate anything it was given.

Ainu to think it's basically child abuse? The poor child is anemic and is passing out because it's not fed properly. I wanted to tell the doctor the mother was lying but my DH said it'd be best to leave it.

I've tried talking to her before how she should be forcing a vegan diet on a child that small but her response was that "meat eaters force their kids to eat meat and other unhealthy stuff, so she can make her kids eat vegan food if she wants to".

I would either speak to the safeguarding people at the nursery or ss. It will be easy enough for the hospital to find out that she goes to a vegetarian nursery and isn't allowed dairy and it is worrying that she lied. It may be that she felt she would be judged for making her child ill or something more sinister. But if she is going to carry on with the restrictive diet while giving false information to doctors so they can't diagnose her properly she is putting her child at risk.

I think you need to let the medical staff who are caring for the child know that the mother has lied to them, @Shelvesoutof books.

The vegan diet shouldn't be a problem - it doesn't automatically mean a poor diet - but from what you have posted, it seems as if the child is not getting a properly balanced diet, and the mother has lied about it - and that is the red flag for me.

Yes it's possible for a young child to have a balanced vegan duet, but it's much easier for them to have a balanced omnivorous diet. You absolutely should have spoken up when the mum lied. Massive red flag tbh.

I think you could report this anonymously to the health visiting team without fear of the friend knowing it was you - given that the child has been to hospital 4 times in 2 weeks for fainting and is an incredibly low weight it would be strange if the hospital are not raising concerns?

Having said that it still could be a sep medical condition - and if the child is eating meat at parties that might be why the mother doesn't consider her to be a vegan, she probably does think her dc is fussy and an omnivore because she isn't eating the vegan food she is being given.

If contacting ss isn't an option could you offer to go help and go along to the next appt then add in some information during the conversation in an innocent seeming way - that she is mainly vegan at home etc?

You need to tell Social Services what you know. You know a child who is very underweight, and whose mother has lied to Drs about why this is. Tell someone the truth, so they can protect this child.

Are there concerns about the childs development? Yes. Call SS.

Yes it is child abuse. Children should not be forced to eat a vegan diet, it is unnatural and dangerous as this incident makes perfectly clear. Only when a child is old enough to understand the risks should they be allowed to choose to be vegan, and must NEVER be forced to be one.

Stop de-railing the thread!

No child chooses their diet, their parents do. Feeding a vegan diet is fine as is feeding meat. This is not the central issue here. The issue is that the child is unwell and it could be related to their diet. The OP has a responsibility to pass on any concerns she has in relation to this.

The parents' actions are adversely affecting the child's growth and development. That's sufficient reason to call Children's Services. Or Social Services, whatever you all call it. Ideally, the hospital will have made a referral, but if the mother was dishonest about the child's diet they may think there's some sort of physiological issue at work rather than simply an inadequate diet. The child's well-being is more important than any potential damage to your relationship with the mother.

She lied to the doctor. That's a massive red flag. She knows she is doing something very wrong hence the lie and you should intervene.

The issue here is not the choice of a vegan diet for the child but the fact that is clearly not supplying the nutrition required and, more worryingly in some ways, the fact that the mother has lied. She would only lie if she knows the diet is the problem and therefore is actively ensuring that her child remains ill. It sounds on a par with Muchausen's by proxy. I'm going to assume you are the child's father or grandparent as you were also attending the appointment, but to be frank, even if you were the taxi driver that dropped them there, you are complicit in this situation. If you are silent about something, you give it permission. If you allow someone to lie and don't correct it, you are colluding with that lie. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but whatever your relationship or motivation, get yourself a bloody backbone and tell the doctors the truth.

A vegan diet is possible for children (I'm not convinced this is the time for the moral argument) and if she tells the truth then, if nothing else, she can surely be given advice from a dietician to help meet the lifestyle she wants for her child and the nutritional requirement for growth and development. You need to act OP.

That said, my son who is 5, was weighed by his paeditrician as he has dev delays, and the paed said he was underweight. Now this boy is like a human vacume cleaner and cleans every food in sight, plus he has a hot dinner each day at school, and a hot dinner at home, and then some. I don't know what else to do, and told the paeditrician this, who did not suggest anything.

My son is the long and lean variety, and though he is 5, he looks like a 7/8 year old, no waist.

Feeding a good vegan diet is actually a lot more difficult than feeding an omnivorous one, especially where small children are concerned (milk is a large component of the diet of young mammals).

OP you need to say something to SS. This child is malnourished and it's mum is sending doctors on a wild goose chase rather than engage in a reasonable conversation with medics about their health and diet.

What do you/the mum mean by a "very healthy" diet? Very healthy for adults or very healthy for a small child? I'm wondering if they include enough fat for example, and make sure all nutritional bases are covered.

I guess it's not untrue that the child is an omnivore if they're allowed to eat meat when out and about. But what's offered at home is something the doctors needed to know too. Like others OP I think you have a responsibility to give someone official a heads-up to complete the picture (GP, Social Services?).

Yes it is abuse because the child is being denied nutrients he/she clearly needs. The mother must know the diet is affecting the child's health or she wouldn't have deliberately lied to the doctor.

If she had been honest, the doctor could have referred her to a professional nutritionist who would have advised her on how to safely manage a vegan diet for a rapidly growing child.

DD is vegetarian but doesn't like eggs, cheese, or milk. We got a referral to a nutritionist who worked with DD (who is particular about what she eats) to find things to add to her diet so that she was eating enough of the right sort of food every day. Fortunately we weren't too far off and just needed to tweak a few things. I liked the nutritionist because she didn't just say 'You have to eat this, this, and this', she made suggestions, and if DD didn't like them, came up with other alternatives until something would work.

It's a abuse she'd rather they put the poor child through loads of possibly unnecessary tests rather than tell the truth :-(

The parent is lying - why?

1. Perhaps she's scared she'll be judged and forced to adopt a better diet for the child
2. Her views outweigh the love/care she has for the child
3. She's hiding something
4. She doesn't understand how to effectively deliver such a diet ( and as someone with a PhD in biochemistry I'd have an idea if I researched it properly but I've learnt over time that people 'think' they understand 'things' it in actual fact they have limited insight - in this type of heavily restricted diet someone must absolutely know what to feed a child .... although personally I totally disagree with limiting diet unless medical necessity
5. Munchausen by proxy

poor wee child

I think a lot of caution is required here.
The child would appear to be very small certainly. There is talk about the vegan diet. The fainting is what worries me most. I am sure that is not normal for a 3 year old. There could be lots of reasons for the lack of growth that are not sinister. The lies of the mother is not necessarily as sinister as has been made out. No-one likes criticism of their child and the mother may have felt offended for herself and child.
How is the child on a day to day basis. Does the child play with toys watch tv play outside or at park. Does he join in at the nursery.
The constant calls to involve SS is not always the best move. They can be very indiscrete and "accidently" let out identifying information and they do tend to over react when they should not and fail to act when they should.
There has been a lot of lack of growth in my relatives not just my family such as siblings and children, cousins too have had problems. Some were investigated some were put through years of hospital tests and the parents put to worry and no real reason has been given for the lack of growth as children. However, quite a few are adults and high teens of the children who were not investigated and the children who were investigated, ironically it appears that those who were thought to be growing OK are not as tall as those who were investigated for not growing. All these children were well fed, no vegans 1 vegetarian the rest on any foods.

The major issue now is why were some investigated, and some not. When a malicious report was made to SS by a disgruntled person not only was a great deal of fuss and distress created it also led to life long hatred of SS personnel in a number of people and questions why they were unable to see the truth.
The hospital came in for criticism for not finding a reason for any of all this. There are still no answers as to why some children were small.
Think very carefully before taking action

It is clearly the diet and I don't understand why vegans are saying it isn't? It could be that the mother just doesn't understand how a vegan diet works and how to ensure adequate nutrition. Fwiw DS2 is anaemic because he refuses to eat anything but cheese sandwiches, coco pops and fish fingers or chicken nuggets. He's slender but not underweight

I'm not saying a vegan diet can't work. But it's difficult, especially for small children.

Anyhow. She shouldn't have lied.

Could you say something now? It's important they know.

And yes, refusing to tell doctors information necessary to treat a sick child? That's awful. I'm not sure if it's child abuse or maybe medical neglect in the UK. But whatever it is, it's a massive red flag.

Btw, if you do believe that the mother isn't generally a danger to her child/can adjust (maybe just said nothing because she was flustered? Maybe it's not just because of the food?) I recommend you encourage her to tell the doctors right now.

What a topical, OP. You watched the programme last night, too, did you? A couple of interesting vegan threads today, too.

Bit, conveniently, vague about the details too...

I've tried talking to her before how she should be forcing a vegan diet on a child that small
Exclusively vegan food is fine for any age.