To think censorship of birth stories should not be allowed?

[NunntheWiser]

I love Standard Issue magazine, I really do. Earlier this week, Milli Hill was published in the Telegraph extolling the virtues of a natural birth and "imaginary pain" guff guff guff. All well and good.

The excellently sweary Cath Janes wrote an opinion piece about this - about how her own experiences of birth were very, very different to this, and whilst it's not right to scare women, it's unfair to expect them not to be honest about their birth experience.

Hill complained about this opinion piece and has forced Standard Issue to withdraw Janes' article, against the author's wishes. Now, I don't know if the fault lies with Standard Issue for not backing up their author, or if it's Hill threatening some legal recourse to the magazine but since when do women's opinions get censored?

In the meantime, Janes' sweary article can only be found using Google Cache: webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3An6IV7Qmr9GcJ%3Astandardissuemagazine.com%2Fvoices%2Fbirth-muthas%2F%20&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

A straight-forward, natural birth is a bit like NOT getting cancer. We can all hope for it, but no amount of positive thinking will guarantee it.

I knew emergency sections happened but had no idea how common they were. Or what tends to happen to your poor broken body before you get to that stage. 50% of my NCT class ended up with sections.

I too was 5'3" and a size 8. At 36 weeks I had a scan to see if a low-lying placenta had rectified itself. It had, but they were worried now about there being too much water, so we had to go for another scan.

The scan showed the water was fine, but that at 36 weeks, the baby was already estimated to be over 7lbs, and babies tend to pack on the weight in those last few weeks, right?

So I asked the consultant, "Do we need to think about a Caesarean Section?" He told me, "Ha ha, don't worry, babies have a way of finding their way out." Patronising fuck.

Fastforward three weeks, two hours after the midwife telling me "You definitely won't have a C-Section now, the baby has descended nicely," the baby is stuck. Her heart rate drops.

Her face is cut from the forceps, right by her eye. She still has the scar. The manual attempts to remove her were so painful they have to anaesthetise me further. They have to push her BACK UP my vagina to do an emergency section.

She is 8lb8.

I feel like I have been butchered. I feel like my baby has been butchered.

The hair ties my NCT class told me I might find useful in case my face got a bit sweaty remain steadfastly in my bag.

Everyone, the stories on here are truly astounding and proof that it is so important that we are vocal about our experiences. The thought of all of these horrors being kept secret, so that we can pretend that babies just pop out with no risk or danger, makes me want to weep for every woman who has been through it and every woman who will one day go through it. That anyone thinks this can all be sailed through with anything other than open and honest discussion about everything from niggly pains to death, also makes me want to weep.

We've been through the shittiest of shit and come through it, some of us mentally and physically altered forever. We are proof that prettified and perfectly lit births don't work for everyone and that's why we have to keep on shouting.

All of you on this thread have amazed me. Thank you again.

Even as the consultant was rummaging around inside (before the big yank out) he said 'oh it's a big baby....for you...' Fucking thanks mate. It's stuck fast. Why did no-one warn me of the chances of this happening at 2 weeks overdue? I was so close to shoulder dystocia - I remember the consultant's words ("[colleague name] please could you come here [from the head end to the vagina end] I think we might have a shoulder problem").

DD2 on the other hand was a respectable 7lb 3 at 39 weeks. I just think my body forgot to go into labour and carried on growing and growing DD1. Far too big for me to birth as a first timer or for her to move into optimum position once back to back (which she was more likely to be due to my anterior placenta).

Because she was 4oz under 'macrosomic' it was not seen as a problem factor in my birth. REALLY? Given my relative size? I was a lamb to the slaughter.

Hey Cath I think it's the first time I've ever wanted to high five someone about my birth experience! Thank you, for making us feel validated and our experiences feel valued. Your writing and freedom of expression on the subject represents us all.

even though a cs is the best option
It's only the best option if it's the option you feel is best. Being pushed into something is never good.

HeyRoly it's this with bells on for me:

I too was warned extensively by the consultant about the potential risks of c section in order to put me off

Our hospital have helpfully included the financial and staffing risks of a CS in the same list as death and brain damage, just in case you wanted to feel guilty about that at any point.

I wonder if its because CS issues have to be reported under "post surgical complications" whereas VB issues get shoved into a forgotten "birth less tinkly than hoped" bin.

That's an interesting thought stormtreader

I do suspect that women sustaining injuries during childbirth is considered "one of those things", as opposed to surgical complications when doctors are presumably made accountable.

Birth injuries, prolapses, incontinence - it's all collateral damage to the woman.

Its ridiculous and sets up a false and very skewed view of childbirth, and does not adequatly prepare women for the reality, what one woman's birth experience may not be another. Or what a woman's previous birth experiences may not be the same for their future childbirth. Women are empowered if they have all the information given to them, including the negatives. By just giving women one side of the story, you are giving them an incomplete picture. Same for breastfeeding.

Indeed.

It's a shame Milli's fucked off. She might have learned something, although I doubt it. Got all the answers already, that one.

This thread keeps getting more and more enlightening. I wish I'd read something like this alongside the pretty lilac book from the midwife.

I always assumed that the reason ELCS is discouraged is because of infection risk and the possibility of post-surgical complications. I work for the NHS! How could I have been so blinkered? Obviously, like everything else, it's about money and accountability.

Everyone is naive the first time but there's really no excuse for me, is there?

Milli Hills next birth if she has one, may be a high intervention one in her local NHS hospital. Don't be so smug!

I try so hard not to be rude to people who assume I must have had bonding or breastfeeding problems, or that DC must've had breathing problems.

I didn't even have a cesarean and that makes me cross! DS had breathing difficulties despite a VB and he had to go to SCBU while I went to theatre. Didn't see him until the next morning, so well over 12 hours. We bonded just fine as well. People have some very funny ideas about these things.

Thing is, TheBadgersMadeMeDoIt am elcs isn't necessarily any more expensive. It is in the short term, but once they take into account subsequent treatment for birth injuries, it's about the same. That's what Nice concluded I believe.

So same cost, but short term savings, and maybe not a cost for their department. sigh

miri they really do! It's that they feel it's ok to share them with you that I can't get my head around. It's scary how this nonsense propagates!

Exactly. Short term savings are what it's all about. The balance sheet has to look good NOW and we'll worry about next financial year when it happens.

I wonder if the cost of the consultant who did my episiotomy/forceps delivery, and the cost of aftercare when my birth-injured tissues became infected, and the cost of a year's treatment for PND (which I believe was actually PTSD), all adds up to the same cost as an ELCS?

I'm pretty sure my routine ELCS was cheaper than: Keillands forceps in theatre, readmittance of baby to hospital for 2 nights, treatment for broken down episiotomy, seeing midwife twice a week for 3 months as she wouldn't sign me off due to the state I was in, investigations for faecal incontinence, painkillers for at least 2 months. I haven't been treated for what I think is PTSD, though it was mentioned in my pre CS visit to the psych. I also haven't taken legal action over the permanent scarring on DD's face. I have thought about it and have until she is 18 to do so.

versus

seeing consultant twice and psych, ELCS, discharge after 2 nights. signed off by midwife after a couple of weeks (I think, I remember 2 home visits and one in the clinic) even my stitches were dissolvable so didn't need removing.

A cs can give quite a lot of collateral damage too.
I was under the physio and many repeat hospital visits for months in order for me to be able to stand due to split tummy muscles.
A wound infection. Lying flat and in hospital for several days due to spinal headache. All quite normal complications for a cs.

But it annoys me when I get tagged in the "avoided the birth trauma" category.

Split tummy muscles (diastasis recti) isn't caused by c sections though - it's caused by pregnancy and the outward projection of the baby pushing the muscles apart. I had it (still do actually - mine was so severe the gap won't close anymore).

No mine was caused directly by the cs, they had to pull them further apart as they sometimes do, to get baby out and was told they had had to do this.
It wasn't there in pregnancy.
I didn't have it again in three subsequent pregnancies fortunately.

I'm pretty sure I have that too, and I had a VB.

Reading this thread hasn't been great - it should be comforting to know that other people had similarly horrible births and similarly horrible damage, that I'm not the only one, but actually it's been really traumatic. Thinking about my own son's birth (or rather, the aftermath) makes me feel physically sick still. It's awful to think so many of us basically have PTSD as well as ruined bodies.

Oh and I did get incontinence too. Seeing as I had had no labour I was puzzled. Until I researched and found it was pregnancy that can also cause that damage too, it's not necessarily the birth.

DS was scarred by forceps too, but luckily it's on his hairline, so hidden by his fringe. It was still very upsetting to see the wound when he was newborn. It all makes me feel so sad.

Just wanted to say thanks to @NunntheWiser for starting this thread, @CathKraken and everyone else sharing their stories.

It seems like everyone from my antenatal group has come through better than me (I'm sure a lot of it is bravado) so I don't feel like I can talk to them. I'm still getting the occasional nightmare and have sworn DS will be a only child, others from the group are already talking about when to have a second child! Reading this thread makes me feel like I'm not making a fuss over nothing.

Six months on from a traumatic 36 hour labour and emergency c-section I'm still shell shocked to put it lightly.

I went in confident and positive that I could cope. I'd been told in the lead up that DS was in the perfect position for labour (shame he decided to flip over at the start of labour so that he was then back to back...). I've got a fantastic, supportive DH who was there the whole time. I can't complain about the hospital staff during labour. My midwife was wonderful, the doctors were fantastic, the anaesthetists were my best friends (due to issues the epidural had to be topped up by an anaesthetist manually so I saw a lot of those guys).

I was treated with compassion, kindness and professionalism during my labour. I've healed really well. I've had no physical issues since. But last night I watched the episode of Friends where Rachel had her baby and that set off a nightmare.

I want to know why in the antenatal class no-one thought to mention that during a c-section you can get the shakes, you can vomit (sorry to be TMI), you can be completely incapable of registering that your baby has been born or even just how long a c-section can take. That was all a bit of a shocker.

I'm feeling better each week, but I feel like I've been destroyed over the past couple of years (miscarriage the previous year also contributing) and I'm only just starting to pull myself back together. Seeing rubbish about how you just have to be positive and supported winds me right up - I had all of that, but simple fact was DS wasn't coming out easily.

Thanks to the people on this thread that have made me feel like I'm not the only one.