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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

wedding, hen do, transgender

750 replies

user1488971792 · 21/03/2017 17:11

Hi I'm after some advice.
I am getting married and just organising the hen do. Im in a bit of a predicament. My cousin (who is quite a bit older then me not that thats really relevant i suppose) is transgender- male to female. All the family have been very accepting and we would rather see her happy then living a lie and she is aware this is how we feel. This isn't a new thing and we have known about her becoming transgender for 2-3 years now.
now the difficult part!! Im organising a hen do, nothing wild, just an overnight stay, spa that sort of thing. its obviously all women, but i don't know whether to invite cousin or not. If it had of been a night out it wouldnt be an issue as i would have just invited her. However, we are all staying in a house together with a hot tub, she is in a relationship with a women and hasn't had any surgery so still 'male' physically. There will be young girls there who i know won't feel comfortable with a 'man.' i think it would be different if she had had surgery, i don't know why? if i don't invite her it will be awkward and i know she won't want to go on the stag do which i completely understand. I am yet to mention anything about the issue at all as i genuinely don't know what to do and dont want to hurt feelings etc any advice on how to handle this issue sensitively ?

OP posts:
stopfuckingshoutingatme · 22/03/2017 09:59

God op you clearly know how to rile this lot up its like bingo man in dress young girls in hot tub penis in vicinity of abused woman and they are all falling for it well done. Mumsnetters love a man in dress story this is the best one yet what a load of shite

my thoughts exactly, with regards to MN riling its a perfect 10/10

Barcoo2 · 22/03/2017 10:01

Her cousin is a woman. She may not be female but she is a woman

Er, no. A woman is an adult human female.

MiriamWebster · 22/03/2017 10:02

Her cousin is a woman. She may not be female but she is a woman.
Please can you explain why you think the the cousin is a woman?

Just because she calls herself a woman doesn't make her one.

Universitychallenging · 22/03/2017 10:04

I disagree.

And I don't see why anyone would want to be so deliberately offensive to someone who is doing no harm and just living their life.

Trifleorbust · 22/03/2017 10:04

And I don't see why anyone would want to be so deliberately offensive to someone who is doing no harm and just living their life.

^^

LaurieMarlow · 22/03/2017 10:08

No other men are invited. The OP has decided it is women/females only. Her cousin is niether a women or a female so why should they expect to be invited? If the hen do was mixed sexes there would not be an issue at all. Its not so there is.

It's entirely up to the OP who she invites. The sex, gender, age, relationship, personality of invitees are entirely up to her. As is the mix of people involved.

There are no rules. It's just a bloody hen party.

SookiesSocks · 22/03/2017 10:19

Uni the cousin is not a woman. It does not matter how many times you say they are it does not make it true.

VeryBitchyRestingFace · 22/03/2017 10:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Universitychallenging · 22/03/2017 10:23

Deliberately misgendering someone is rude. Why would anyone do that?

Trifleorbust · 22/03/2017 10:32

VeryBitchyRestingFace:

Being facetious about someone's mental health needs - classy.

SookiesSocks · 22/03/2017 10:32

I dont believe in gender. I believe in sex.

If a person wants me to call them a prefered pronoun I am happy to however they cannot make me believe black is white or male is female.

LaurieMarlow · 22/03/2017 10:33

What's sad about so many female responses to the plight of transgender women is the utter denial of empathy or understanding.

These are individuals who have also been screwed over by patriarchal society too, probably to a degree that none of us will understand. They'll have very complicated and negative relationships with that same penis that everyone gets so het up about. I can't see why anyone would take the huge step of transitioning unless they were deeply unhappy with the status quo and desperately needed a way out.

egosumquisum1 · 22/03/2017 10:33

I am not sure why some one would deliberately use 'he' to a transwoman. Sometimes people make mistakes but why would someone deliberately use 'he'?

grannytomine · 22/03/2017 10:35

Bit late with this but in my house bitch is a term of endearment, my DD was very amused when this disclosure caused much concern in a psychology lecture.

We play count the "bitch" comments from Jesse in Breaking Bad. It never seems to be directed at women, frequently isn't directed at anyone and generally seems to be positive but sometimes hard to tell.

I realise that doesn't help the OP but just thought it added to the discussion about using the word.

Bonez · 22/03/2017 10:38

If she's important to you, you will invite her without an issue. If you're questioning it this much then she's obviously not important to you. There is your answer.

Gallavich · 22/03/2017 10:38

I am not sure why some one would deliberately use 'he' to a transwoman. Sometimes people make mistakes but why would someone deliberately use 'he'?

I'm not saying I do this, but I can see why people do. Using 'preferred pronouns' tacitly accepts the ideology behind it. For a gender abolitionist, 'she' is the pronoun for a female. After all, we use it for other species who definitely don't have gender identities. So, to use 'she' for a male person is not only factually incorrect, but also implies acceptance of the belief that gender identity is more valid than sex.
Your belief that you are a woman is just a belief. You have every right to hold it but you cannot expect others to share it, or pretend they share it.

MsGameandWatch · 22/03/2017 10:41

"She's a woman now"

No. They're pretending to be and trans activists are trying to shame and berate us all into joining the pretence. Not a woman, never a woman, never can be a woman. BUT I will treat them as though they are if that's what makes them happy and in the interest of good manners and respecting others people's preferences so far as they don't impinge on mine. Because I don't care you see, I don't care how people choose to live and I think people should so what they need to do to live the real and authentic life they need to do.

I will never agree that they're women because they're not and that is not cruelty it is fact and no amount of bullying or shaming will make mr believe otherwise.

How his view can be called bigoted, transphobic, discriminatory I actually cannot comprehend.

With regard to the OP, I would do something for my hen do that didn't raise these issues. Ensuring that everyone is accommodated and no one is made to feel uncomfortable - basic good manners of taking everyone's needs into account.

Italiangreyhound · 22/03/2017 10:44

LaurieMarlow "...a hen party is not a legally defined female only space." There is no legal definition of a party! There is a linguistic one...

hen party
noun informal
a social gathering of women, especially a hen night.

Agree with SookiesSocks "The OP has decided it is women/females only. Her cousin is niether a women or a female so why should they expect to be invited? "

Trifleorbust · 22/03/2017 10:46

Italiangreyhound:

I have ten sisters and one brother. He came to my hen. If he was a trans woman, I would still have invited him to my hen. If anyone had a problem with him being there, they would be very welcome to jog on.

VeryBitchyRestingFace · 22/03/2017 10:46

Being facetious about someone's mental health needs - classy

I'm pointing out the lunacy of the poster's position.

I have every sympathy with people who believe they were born in the "wrong" body (although the TRA position goes much further than this).

But having sympathy with someone doesn't mean wholesale buying into their world view or believing they should be allowed to encroach on women's rights/space.

The irony is that if Rachel Dolezal had self identified as a black man, people would have been clamouring to defend her right to self identify as a man, using the same arguments they utterly reject as valid when applied to her identifying as black.

Italiangreyhound · 22/03/2017 10:47

Universitychallenging "And I don't see why anyone would want to be so deliberately offensive to someone who is doing no harm and just living their life."

What is offensive here, not inviting a forty year old cousin to a hen do?

The only/main reason it seems that the OP is even thinking of inviting her is because she feels the fall out will be bad if she does not. Please correct me if I am wrong, OP.

Anyway, if the thread said I am having a hen do for lots of young women including teens and I don't want to invite my forty something mum or aunty but my family will make me feel bad, I recon loads of people would say, invite who you like etc. Other people should not dictate your special event to you.

LaurieMarlow · 22/03/2017 10:48

Italian, I said it wasn't a legally defined female only space - which it isn't.

Increasingly, it includes men, perhaps only a couple, perhaps only gay men, perhaps whatever the fuck you're having yourself.

There are no rules, it's entirely up to the OP who she invites.

Universitychallenging · 22/03/2017 10:49

Italian. The op didn't say that at all.

Trifleorbust · 22/03/2017 10:50

VeryBitchyRestingFace:

People worth 'every sympathy' don't sound like you do. It's not a laughing matter, and you sound like you think it is.

Trifleorbust · 22/03/2017 10:50

*with

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