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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To get annoyed when dd(6) learns about Christianity?

587 replies

MooPointCowsOpinion · 20/03/2017 18:00

She is at a non-religious, normal state primary. She is the type of kid who remembers everything she's told and parrots it back, so I hear about her entire day every day at school. Almost every day she tells me they sang this song about Jesus, learnt that story about Jesus, learnt this lesson about Christianity. Every assembly they sing a Christian song.

I am an atheist. I don't want her to learn just about Christianity, all religions are important in a 'this is what some people believe' kind of way but I feel like they're indoctrinating her into Christianity by pushing it so much. I try to counter it by teaching her other religious beliefs and telling her my beliefs, but I know the steady drip drip of information could plant a seed that could lead to what I would consider radicalisation.

I've brought it up with her teacher, she's sympathetic and has given us the option to opt-out but I'd hate for her to feel singled out and to miss important things in assemblies.

Does/did it bother you? AIBU to be annoyed?

OP posts:
BabyDubsEverywhere · 21/03/2017 15:16

When my DD1 was in reception they had the local vicar in the assembly giving a talk... when he asked the children for some things that God gave us, probably expecting some fuzz about animals or food, she announced: God gave Rock n Roll to everyone! She then proceeded to sing the full song by Kiss... thankfully the teachers found it hilarious, the vicar, not so much!

egosumquisum1 · 21/03/2017 15:43

How would people describe a school where the teachers said in assembly everyday that God did not exist? They had no proof for that statement but that was their belief?

supermoon100 · 21/03/2017 16:02

If you're happy to buy in to the stories of father christmas and the tooth fairy I really don't see the harm in learning about other religions. They are all mad magical crazy stories - god on a cloud is hardly a stretch from father christmas in his sleigh is it?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 21/03/2017 16:14

How would people describe a school where the teachers said in assembly everyday that God did not exist?

Excellent

They had no proof for that statement but that was their belief?

You cannot prove a non existence

BroomstickOfLove · 21/03/2017 16:38

How would people describe a school where the teachers said in assembly everyday that God did not exist?

I'd consider it a school which tried to indoctrinate children and avoid it if possible, in much the same way that I avoid schools which tell children that a/multiple god(s) is/are real.

If they had really good songs and fantastic atheist poetry and art and familiarity with those gave them a greater understanding of art, music, literature, poetry and history I probably wouldn't object, but would still prefer that my children were taught about the atheist culture rather than having to participate in it even if they believed in a deity or practiced a religion.

Rainbunny · 21/03/2017 16:49

I'm an atheist who went to catholic school as a child. TBH I can't get too worked up about the idea of my child being introduced to christianity. At the end of the day most religions share the same core values - don't lie, don't steal, etc... which also are reflected in the arrangement of our society and laws so it's not a bad basis to start out life on. As long as you can present other information to balance it out I wouldn't worry that your child is being "indoctrinated," after all you clearly were not successfully indoctrinated and your child will learn to question and think for herself.

There are many areas in life where we need to question and challenge things, I think it's more important to get your child prepared to do that rather than worry about trying to shield your child from all "inappropriate" influences. Sadly we live in a world where 10 years olds can access porn on their cellphones, I want to prepare my kids to be healthy and strong in the face of challenges that made my childhood seem like an innocent famous five story!

egosumquisum1 · 21/03/2017 17:24

f you're happy to buy in to the stories of father christmas and the tooth fairy I really don't see the harm in learning about other religions

Again - the OP is NOT about learning about other religions. It's about the daily act of collective worship.

Anon1234567890 · 21/03/2017 18:36

How would people describe a school where the teachers said in assembly everyday that God did not exist?

Why would a school have assemblies on things they dont believe in? Have you ever been in a faith school that had an assembly on how no one believes in Thor?

but would still prefer that my children were taught about the atheist culture rather than having to participate in it

There is no such thing as an atheist culture, its is not a belief system. So you can teach about it or participate in it.

egosumquisum1 · 21/03/2017 18:47

Why would a school have assemblies on things they dont believe in? Have you ever been in a faith school that had an assembly on how no one believes in Thor

Depends if other schools had assemblies on Thor being God, if there was a law stating there had to be an act of collective worship towards Thor, if Thor's worshippers had seats in the House of Lords, if we were described as a Thor country and if the Monarch was also Head of the Church of Thor.

egosumquisum1 · 21/03/2017 18:49

Oh - and if people in power were questioned about their belief in Thor and used their belief in Thor as a guide for how they ran the country.

And did interviews with Thor Today, Thor times.

And if the BBC had a daily section on the Today programme of Thor's thought for the day.

egosumquisum1 · 21/03/2017 18:51

Imagine then being that school that went against the grain and said out loud that they didn't think Thor existed. Despite all the stuff in the culture about Thor?

ollieplimsoles · 21/03/2017 18:59

ego

Are you trying to say that a school which taught it's pupils that there is no god and religion is false would be wrong, simply because god and religion is engrained in a culture?

egosumquisum1 · 21/03/2017 19:06

Are you trying to say that a school which taught it's pupils that there is no god and religion is false would be wrong, simply because god and religion is engrained in a culture

Not at all.

I think it would be a great idea if a school could do that. If schools have to have a daily act of collective worship to a deity (where there is no proof one exists), then a school should be allowed to say that there is no God. I think there is as much proof God does not exist as there is for those who believe in God have proof that God does exist.

ollieplimsoles · 21/03/2017 19:08

Xposted with you ego
Imagine then being that school that went against the grain and said out loud that they didn't think Thor existed. Despite all the stuff in the culture about Thor?

What if, even though culturally, Thor was integral, but many, many people didn't actually believe. What if lots of people within the culture actually felt that a belief in Thor was potentially damaging and not compatible with a progressive society?

Do they just stay quiet so as not to go against the grain?

ollieplimsoles · 21/03/2017 19:11

Sorry just caught up, I'm not sure I agree with this:

I think there is as much proof God does not exist as there is for those who believe in God have proof that God does exist.

Because my idea of proof and a believer's idea of proof will likely be different. For instance, I do not believe that personal revelation is proof that god exists. But many christians I know base their entire faith on the assumption that god 'revealed himself' to them, and they share their testimony with people like me, hoping I will be swayed to join them in their delusion.

egosumquisum1 · 21/03/2017 19:12

What if lots of people within the culture actually felt that a belief in Thor was potentially damaging and not compatible with a progressive society

Interesting. The progressive society a long time ago led to a change from the ancient religions into Christianity for many.

It's surprising the influence Christianity still has on Western Culture.
It's surprising the influence religion and faith still has on society worldwide.

Sisinisawa · 21/03/2017 19:14

I don't think anyone ever became a Christian through singing songs at school. Op your fears are unfounded.

egosumquisum1 · 21/03/2017 19:15

Because my idea of proof and a believer's idea of proof will likely be different

One of the reasons I don't think God exists is the fact that this world is a crap place. Death, destruction and people of faith and no faith who are abandoned by God. I can't imagine having such faith, being in a desperate situation, praying to God and not being heard.

Others say that you see God in the world. When people do great things, work together and show love, that is God's love. I am sure people with faith can explain that better.

themueslicamel · 21/03/2017 19:20

With you all the way op, bloody ban religious dogma from education.

Superstitious nonsense has no place in schools.Angry

ohgoshIdontknow · 21/03/2017 19:24

YABU

LOL at 'radicalisation' from singing the odd hymn in assembly!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 21/03/2017 19:25

One of the reasons I don't think God exists is the fact that this world is a crap place. Death, destruction and people of faith and no faith who are abandoned by God. I can't imagine having such faith, being in a desperate situation, praying to God and not being heard.

This is why I think the Epicurus statement still applies:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

ohgoshIdontknow · 21/03/2017 19:25

Very well put rainbunny

Miniwookie · 21/03/2017 19:28

OP yanbu. You mentioned your difficult relationship with the church during your teens. Were your parents religious? Mine are atheist but sent me to Sunday school and I went to a non-church school which had the usual collective worship. I grew out of a belief in God around the same age as I stopped believing in Father Christmas/the tooth fairy. My parents taught me to think critically and I did. I look back on those beliefs I had as a child now as something that served a purpose at the time and actually brought comfort and joy into my life. My DC have been the same and stopped believing when they were around 7/8yo. The only thing I would say that is negative about my experience is I distinctly remember a time when I believed but knew my parents didn't and was worried they would go to hell

SilenceOfThePrams · 21/03/2017 19:44

It's tricky isn't it?

I wonder what you would consider to be proof? For me, I know God exists because I talk to him every day. He is my friend, my brother, my King. I have been utterly overwhelmed in his presence, I see his hand on every aspect of my life, and I have seen the power and the supernatural knowledge of the Holy Spirit.

For me, that He exists is irrefutable; there is nothing you can ever say or do that will change that fact. And yes, I've known my fair share of suffering, I've watched relatives die slowly in pain, I see others living through incredible suffering. I'm not insulated from the pain of this broken world - but I know he's there with me in all of this.

I could give you a hundred friends, four hundred in our congregation, several thousand in our summer meetings who could all tell you similar stories.

But I don't think any of our experiences would convince you.

I'm not telling you my experience, my reality in order to try to convince you. Just to demonstrate how wide is the gap. You say it's a fact there is no God, because there is no evidence. I say it's a fact there is a God, and is presence in my life is all the evidence I could ever need.

I wonder what evidence you would accept as evidence?

Mo55chop5 · 21/03/2017 19:57

Can people please stop saying the UK is a Christian country? It isn't, it's secular and all the "Christian" festivals that atheists are sneered at for celebrating were pagan long before the whole Jesus fairy story started.

I LOVE celebrating Santas birthday in December, I love the presents, the family gatherings, the food and the drink and time off work. The dullest part is all the religious bollocks that goes along with the fun stuff