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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To get annoyed when dd(6) learns about Christianity?

587 replies

MooPointCowsOpinion · 20/03/2017 18:00

She is at a non-religious, normal state primary. She is the type of kid who remembers everything she's told and parrots it back, so I hear about her entire day every day at school. Almost every day she tells me they sang this song about Jesus, learnt that story about Jesus, learnt this lesson about Christianity. Every assembly they sing a Christian song.

I am an atheist. I don't want her to learn just about Christianity, all religions are important in a 'this is what some people believe' kind of way but I feel like they're indoctrinating her into Christianity by pushing it so much. I try to counter it by teaching her other religious beliefs and telling her my beliefs, but I know the steady drip drip of information could plant a seed that could lead to what I would consider radicalisation.

I've brought it up with her teacher, she's sympathetic and has given us the option to opt-out but I'd hate for her to feel singled out and to miss important things in assemblies.

Does/did it bother you? AIBU to be annoyed?

OP posts:
badabing36 · 21/03/2017 11:59

I see what you mean about the 'act of worship' bit. But honestly I don't think it makes a difference to what kids think. I did prayers at junior school, as did all of my friends. Most of us are atheists or agnostics now (one was born-again at uni into what seemed like a cult- haven't seen her for a long time).

My point is that kids are not parrots who think what they are told, they can question things and make up their own minds. They might even question you drilling atheism into them and become religious.

Anon1234567890 · 21/03/2017 12:00

I think the one thing we can all believe is that children at school should not have an act of Collective Worship

Yes we agree on that.

egosumquisum1 You would be an atheist but additionally you also say you believe there is no god. Is this just a belief or do you have evidence to prove that conclusion. I only ask because it would be very significant to many people if you could actually prove gods non-existence.

Anon1234567890 · 21/03/2017 12:03

I don't think it makes a difference to what kids think
Then what is the point in doing it? Wouldn't that time be better spent learning something that does make a difference?

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 21/03/2017 12:04

I'm happy for DD to learn about all sorts of religions. I'm not happy when one is taught as "fact", like it was my in my primary school (not a church school, just a state primary in a very religious area unfortunately). From about 6 or 7 onwards I knew that their stories made no sense whatsoever and it was quite confusing to be told that I had to believe it, had to sing, had to pray etc when I had no idea who I was praying to.

I went along with it until I was 9 or 10 and then refused to take part in any prayers etc. I got in trouble for it. That shouldn't happen, especially not in non-religious schools. I also got in trouble for writing "Jesus was a Jew" in RE still bitter. Apparently him being King of the Jews doesn't mean he was a Jew, he was a Christian Hmm

If my daughter is taught one religion as "fact" in school, I'll withdraw her from collective worship.

badabing36 · 21/03/2017 12:07

Then what is the point in doing it?

I don't know.

Dahlietta · 21/03/2017 12:09

a) you believe god exists or you dont. b) you believe god does not existence or you don't.

Point b) makes absolutely no sense.

Anon1234567890 · 21/03/2017 12:17

b) you believe god does not exist or you don't.

Sorry Dahlietta corrected

Isetan · 21/03/2017 12:32

I think the one thing we can all believe is that children at school should not have an act of Collective Worship.

I loved singing hymns during school assembly (the praying I could have done without but used the time to reflect on other things) and I was brought up in the Christian faith but I have always been an atheist. I now live in the Netherlands where DD goes to a RC school (historically so but now it's in name only) and every now and again she will talk about God but she doesn't talk in absolutes. I personally don't think DD will 'catch' Christiananity from singing a few hymns.

Eolian · 21/03/2017 12:40

That would be a secular school.

Yes it would, but you could equally call it an atheist school. All you need to be an atheist is a lack of belief in god, you don't actually have to spout Dawkins in assembly in order to qualify as atheist. It wouldn't even need to be only for atheist children or staff - after all, most church schools are stuffed with non-believers and happily still call themselves CofE or Catholic schools.

noeffingidea · 21/03/2017 12:40

badabing who is 'drilling atheism' into children?
There's no need to drill something into children when it already exists. Children are born atheist, how would they know about God(s) if no one tells them. Or indeed ,any other abstract concept.

Eolian · 21/03/2017 12:44

I'm absolutely certain my dc won't catch religion from their church school either, Isetan, but I don't really think 'Oh there's no harm in it' and 'the songs are nice' are good enough reasons to keep on including acts of worship in schools full of people who don't believe in god.

LadyPW · 21/03/2017 13:16

I think the one thing we can all believe is that children at school should not have an act of Collective Worship
Yes we agree on that.

We all believe that do we? Well actually no we don't.

I have noticed on MN that it's not the Christians who try to force their beliefs on others but the atheists. Hmm

JustAnotherPoster00 · 21/03/2017 13:17

I have noticed on MN that it's not the Christians who try to force their beliefs on others but the atheists.

I'm an atheist I dont have any beliefs to force on anyone

Seryph · 21/03/2017 13:22

I have noticed on MN that it's not the Christians who try to force their beliefs on others but the atheists.

But you think all children should be forced to have a Christian based act of collective worship daily. That sounds a hell of a lot like forcing your beliefs on someone.

LadyPW · 21/03/2017 13:32

I'm referring to atheists insisting that there is no God rather than saying that they don't believe but others are free to do so.
And no, I don't think that all children should be forced to have collective worship - I believe that children should have an act of collective worship but equally could choose not to attend. My point was that the PP was incorrect to say that "we all" believe in not having an act without actually asking every single person.

TheOtherSock · 21/03/2017 13:35

The difference between a secular school and a religious school is like the difference between letting everyone bring their own packed lunch or go home for lunch, and making everyone have the provided lunch, which is the same every day and with no alternative choices. Of course, you can always withdraw your child from the communal lunch, if you don't want them to have to sit and eat chicken curry and bread for lunch every day, but they'll have to eat somewhere else away from the main group, and will miss out on the lunchtime notices.

Except, of course, it's not merely someone's dietary preferences we're talking about - it's something so fundamental it's protected by all civilised societies: freedom of religion.

BroomstickOfLove · 21/03/2017 13:45

Not taking part in a daily act of worship isn't forcing atheism on children.

My children attend a state community primary school. God is only mentioned in a 'some people believe' way. Children learn about the main world religions and go on trips to local places of worship of various faiths to learn more about those religions, but not to be told that those religions are correct. There is a nativity play, but it's never told as a true story. There are no hymns or prayers, but there is a lot of discussion about goodness. Parents of different religions come in to talk about how they celebrate the main festivals of their religion, and share food/activities associated with the festivals with the children.

It's not a religious school.
It's not an atheist school.
It's a community school where Christians and atheists and Jews and buddhists and Sikhs and Hindus and pagans and agnostics and everyone else are valued and free to express their beliefs, so long as they don't hurt other people.

RestlessTraveller · 21/03/2017 13:47

My friend's little girl goes to a secular school had a visit from the local Catholic priest who spoke about all the charitable work that he does. Inspired by this she told him she would like to be a priest when she grows up, only to be told that she couldn't because she was a girl. Cue a phone call from a very exasperated teacher informing my friend that her daughter was going around telling everyone "God hates girls". Oh how we laughed.

BroomstickOfLove · 21/03/2017 13:47

Posted a bit too soon. If our school can do it, I don't see why others can't. The ethos is valued by the religious parents as much as the non-religious ones.

EdmundCleverClogs · 21/03/2017 13:52

I believe that children should have an act of collective worship but equally could choose not to attend.

Yes we have a place for that. It's called church. Why should a group of children miss out on morning assembly because it's pushing a singular religious agenda? Religion is a lifestyle choice, education is compulsory. Why should the former take precedence when it is unnecessary?

Anon1234567890 · 21/03/2017 13:55

Yes it would, but you could equally call it an atheist school

As long as we have faith school selecting children by belief we should be allowed atheist schools that can select by lack of belief.

What a great school that would be teaching critical thinking and rational, verifiable truths.

However I dont think that would be a good move as most people seem to ascribe a lot of incorrect 'beliefs' to the term atheism. Even on here a lot of posters seem to misunderstand what it means. Much better we try and take religion out of schools, end the discrimination of faith selection and make all education secular.

I believe that children should have an act of collective worship but equally could choose not to attend

How about making it that children could chose to attend a daily worship (I wonder how many would chose that). Its not really a fair choice if you have everyone in a Christian assembly and the head stands up and says, "right, all you atheists can leave now".

Anon1234567890 · 21/03/2017 14:00

Cue a phone call from a very exasperated teacher informing my friend that her daughter was going around telling everyone "God hates girls"

Your daughter has a point and I hope you told the teacher where to go.

MrsDoylesladder · 21/03/2017 14:08

My dad was from a non- Christian faith. Back in the 1920s and 30s (at a state school in a deprived area) he and siblings were allowed to be absent from Christian worship at school and, in the winter, to go home early on Friday before sundown.

BroomstickOfLove · 21/03/2017 14:19

What a great school that would be teaching critical thinking and rational, verifiable truths.

Shouldn't that be the basic standard for all schools? Critical thinking in all areas and rational, verifiable truths as a foundation for all subjects, even though in many subjects rational and verifiable truths alone are not sufficient.

Sundance01 · 21/03/2017 14:19

I am an atheist and really could not care less about my childen being taught about every religion under the sun. I do not care if they take part in religious worship of any religion and I do not care if other children/adults in the community tell them it is true.

But I object to someone in authority over them - like a teacher - telling them it is fact.

There is a massive difference.

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