To not understand "gender grief"

[PetalMettle]

E.g. Being "devastated" that you're expecting one gender over another? Maybe it's because I had a long wait for what looks like my one and only child or because I've seen people who desperately want children unable to have them, but I actually get quite annoyed that people say they have such strong preferences.
However this does seem to be quite common and universally acknowledged as a thing which the mother should be sympathised with and cosseted for.
Am I weird for feeling like it's very self indulgent unless there's a reason like an inherited disease one gender doesn't get?

gender grief... thats where it starts, and female infanticide is where it ends.

Oops cross post. Perhaps I'm a tad over sensitive this morning 
My fault, I wasn't clear

My mother has spent my entire life telling me she didn't really ever want children but as she had us (two girls) she was terribly upset as we weren't boys. This has not made for an easy life! I wanted a boy first, and had a daughter, it was slightly disappointing but not earth shattering, i went on to have a boy then another girl. All fine and i obviously adore them. To spend your life letting your daughter know she should have been a boy is not a good thing to do.

Grief? That's very strong. I can understand being a little disappointed if you hoped for the other - I hoped for a girl and got a boy- but it wasn't grief. It lasted a few days and then I got over it and realised how lucky I am to have a gorgeous healthy son.
Grief is miscarriage, grief was being told the baby had trisomy 21 and a heart defect and was dying, grief was IVF and ttc for 3 years.
Wanting one sex and getting the other is not grief.

It is a kind of grief to grieve for lost expectations or something that wasn't how you imagined. That doesn't mean that people experiencing it don't also know that there are worse things to be upset about/grieve for; or that they aren't grateful for having a healthy baby; or that it's an insult to people who have suffered stillbirth -- in the same way that one can grieve for the death of a pet, without mistaking it for the same kind of grief as losing your mum. That doesn't mean it's not a valid feeling, or that those experiencing it don't have a sense of perspective about it.

A few years ago I would have thought the idea of gender grief was strange.

I'm now a mum to 4 amazing boys. No-one in the world knows how I really felt about finding out ds4 was another boy- I didnt want to land him or his brothers with that psychological baggage- but I think mourning the loss of my vision of being a mum to a daughter probably contributing to my PND.

I come from a family of strong women... I always pictured myself raising a kick ass feminist young woman. However it turns out I need to raise my boys as kick ass feminists instead. I still get a pang of sadness occasionally about never having a daughter and it hits me at the strangest times.... sometimes when I see all the boys playing a computer game together ( they are getting bigger now) with DH and I feel a bit "left out" somehow. I then need to have a strong talk to myself about how lucky I am and how having a daughter she may love fifa too. I don't even like pink and dresses. And i read MIL threads on here and genuinely worry about not being as much of a part of my boys lives once they marry or leave home.

I think that if you can't understand how people may mourn the loss of a future they have dreamed of then you might be lacking in imagination.

Yeah my mum wanted sons and had daughters, too. She never actually said so, but volunteered to run the cub pack, was dismissive of Brownies even though we went, made a massive fuss of our male cousin, that sort of thing.

I'm sure our relationship is partly why i longed for a daughter - potential for some sort of healing maybe.

I know two people who have suffered enormously with gender disappointment for very different reasons. They are intelligent, compassionate women who have not only had to struggle with the GD itself, but with their guilt and some of the horribly judgmental comments such as the ones on this thread.

I can't pretend to 'get it' but having seen it up close, at it worst, it's real, it's not something that some women choose to 'indulge in' and it doesn't make them heartless, wicked people.

To dismiss any woman struggling with GD as 'ridiculous,' pathetic or wanting to be 'pandered to' is hard to read.

I have four boys. I adore them. Would not be without them. But when DS4 came out, with him being my last, I was a bit sad for a while. Not devastated, just sad.

He's the light of my life and I don't love him even one iota less because he's a boy. But I do feel sad that I won't get to see my husband walk a daughter down the aisle. That I'll have no daughter who needs her mum from time to time. In fact, I could sob if I think too much about it. So I don't, and I'd never, ever vocalise it to my kids.

And yes, if you could guarantee me a girl, a nice, two hour Labour at home in the pool and build me an extension, I'd have another.

In fact, namechangingagainagain said it all much, much better than me.

Semantics are important here though aren't they?

Disappointment - a fleeting sadness about 'what might have been'. Understandable, common, nothing weird or pathetic about it.
Grief - all consuming, life changing, never ending distress. If that is a person's genuine state after having the 'wrong' gender than they are being weird and pathetic unless there is a significant reason for feeling that way. Even with a reason, whilst its not pathetic, its certainly not normal and needs to be addressed. Its a symptom of something else.

I had to deal with other people's sodding gender grief. I have four boys. Two after the death of my DD. I had being fecking cry when they found out I was having a boy.
Why they thought having a another girl would make everything ok is a mystery.

Happened with both pregnancies. People pumping me 'omg are you OK? ' 'you must be so upset'.

Now that is weird and pathetic and don't anyone dare try and defend that sort of behaviour.

Sorry op but I think you are being unreasonable. Since I was young I wanted a girl then a boy, 1 of each.
I never wanted to find out the sex before the birth, so I waited.
My preference for a girl first was very strong. It's difficult to explain exactly why. When I was pregnant, friends of ours were both expecting girls (they found out before the birth).
When my baby was born, I knew the moment I'd always dreamed of was coming (for then midwife to say "congratulations, it's a girl/ boy", and hand my my baby). When she said it was a boy, the first feeling was a hit of disappointment that I didn't get my girl. As soon as I looked at him and had him in my arms, I instantly loved him, he was my son and as his mother it's my job to love and care for him and raise him the best myself and dh can.
However I couldn't help but feel a pang of disappointment that I had a boy not a girl.
Unless you've been through it, it's virtually impossible to describe it explain why the feelings are there.
It makes a lot of people angry and disappointed at themselves for feeling that way, many hate themselves, feel that they are not good enough, sometimes even that they don't deserve the child they have.
All the above went through my mind, my son wasn't well when he was born, and had to stay in hospital for 12 days. Even though I knew deep down it wasn't my fault, I blamed myself for a very long time, that maybe if I hadn't wanted a girl so much, my boy wouldn't have been unwell. I even thought that I deserved it, that it was my punishment for feeling disappointed with my son. That because I really hoped for a girl and didn't have one, I had to suffer because I was a terrible mum for feeling sad I had a boy instead.
It really is a horrible experience. I understand why many people struggle to understand it, but please remember this, speaking as someone who struggled with gender disappointment, regardless of how you may feel about it, the person going through it is likely to feel much worse about it than you. It is difficult to deal with.
Fortunately I dealt with it and I'm over it now. But the desire to still really want a girl is still there, and will be until I hopefully have one.

However I couldn't help but feel a pang of disappointment that I had a boy not a girl

You are not describing grief. Grief is not a 'pang of disappointment'.
I wouldn't even give what you felt a label. You hoped for one gender and you got another and you felt a bit sad for a while.

It doesn't need a label. I don't understand how that helps anyone.

I felt really bad for a day when I found out I was having a boy and not the girl I imagined. Now he's here I wouldn't have it any other way...

I have seen how this this plays out long term and it isn't nice. It is made clear the siblings/grandchildren of one sex will always be preferred. It strains all sorts of family relationships. A bit of mild disappointment for something is fine along with lots of things (like a preference for eye colour, a shared interest etc) but it can be taken way too far by some people and cause lots of problems.

I think you can not understand something and still accept that for some people it is a real thing and a grief of sorts.
Remember we can only live our own experience, it's not a competition. Your particular experience has given you a different outlook and that's ok. I fell pregnant easily first time round and had a boy. When we started trying for a second I unfortunately miscarried and then had a long wait to get pregnant again. This experience totally changed me.
Initially I'd really wanted a girl as we had a boy already. But after the loss and starting to feel like I wasn't going to manage to fall again, it began to not matter at all. I don't know what we are having and really don't have a preference. I'm just hoping it all goes well and the baby is healthy.
I remember watching a documentary on this and it was quite heartbreaking. One woman was on boy 5 I think.
I suppose I feel now you get the family you're meant to have, but that's just me and my experience.

"People who experience 'gender grief' should try swapping places with those who have had stillbirths/premature babies that are left with lifelong conditions. "

That's kind of like saying that someone shouldn't be worried that their granny is sick because yours died.

Mild disappointment for something you wanted but don't have I can sort of understand. If it causes you 'devastation' then you should wait to have children till you can move past this.

*People who experience 'gender grief' should try swapping places with those who have had stillbirths/premature babies that are left with lifelong conditions. "

That's kind of like saying that someone shouldn't be worried that their granny is sick because yours died.*

Hardly. Having a girl/boy who is healthy is nothing even close to this, its like someone comparing it to their granny with a cold sore..

I have a friend who is currently going through this and I experienced it myself when I discovered I was having a girl after having my son. I wanted two boys (this is relevant).

Before your baby is born they are in essence an 'idea' and a 'concept'. Yes, there is a real baby in there but you have no idea 'who' they are, their personalities, likes, dislikes, temperament etc. So you have no choice but to attach your own idea's about 'boy', 'girl', 'brother' or 'sister' to your pregnancy. Those ideas can only be formed through your own experiences. For me, I had a difficult relationship with my own sister and mother and never had a brother. My son was the most wonderful baby / toddler; calm, loving, placid etc. So I wanted another one, thinking girls were just difficult. But after I had my daughter I could no longer attach my preconceived ideas about 'girl' because my daughter was a real person with her own unique and wonderful qualities.

You may assume particular hobbies, toys or interests are exclusive to a gender. Think of all the dads who want to play football with their sons or mums who dream of shopping with their daughters. They may feel disappointment if they don't get the news they were hoping for at the gender scan. How many of them wish they didn't have their children once their little girl grows up hating shopping and loving rugby? Or the son is useless at football? Very very few I'm guessing.

I think we have developed a tendency as a society to focus on what we want and aim to get it. When life doesn't meet our expectations, we are disappointed. Our parents, well grandparents for some of you, had limited choice about when or whether children would arrive.

The down side of our current society is that people are getting a bit spoilt. There is a very strong individual morality, individual validation, individual need which must be met which I think is very damaging to society as a whole.

We want everything, but don't like the ramifications of our choices. Sorry if that sounds dark and deep. I'm on a parking thread, the 12yr old rape case, the going in a temple when you shouldn't thread, and the paying for toddler at the zoo thread. It's looking pretty dark out there to me, right now.

I agree *picklemepopcorn. Sad

buttface its absolutely not the same. Experiencing grief because you wanted a girl and got a boy or vice versa is insulting to women who have had miscarriages or premature babies with lifelong babies. Thats what i call grief and if u dont understand that i despair.

I find gender disappointment concerning, not so much for the individuals experiencing it but more because of the way our society seems to consider gender as so massively important (reification). I don't think it's actually about the sex of the baby at all, it's all the preconceived notions about what it means to have a son or a daughter that people regret or grieve. I'm not including the personal thoughts about relationships that people had with mothers/sisters, more the way that people assign imaginary future roles to unborn children. This is probably exacerbated by scans showing sex before the baby arrives, and also by people generally having much smaller families.

I don't know, I can understand it in some ways. My friend is one of 4 and all his siblings are girls. He has three kids with his wife, all girls. He was hoping for a boy because he wanted to be able to pass down the (very unusual) surname and forename of his dad and nobody's been able to do so yet. I think they're trying again!

He doesn't love his girls any less, but he was a bit disappointed at the time to find out it was a third girl!