"Put it up out of reach"

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

My 3yo toddler is into everything and it's driving me up the wall!

I have to check my bag 5 times before we leave the flat as she has form for taking stuff out - my keys, my wallet etc. She gets into my makeup and ruins it, gets it on the furniture. finds pens and draws on walls, pulls clothing out of cupboards and drawers, breaks things in the kitchen.

We rent so I can't make too many amendments to the place. We do have two high shelves but they are literally the only place I can put things that she can't get to! She climbs onto the kitchen counters, uses chairs to reach onto the dining table - nowhere is safe any more

Even the bathroom cabinet is accessible to her by standing on the loo.

AIBU to wonder where all these "up out of the reach of toddlers" places are? Does anyone else struggle with this?

[dowhatnow]

I don't think my first post was over the top actually. Perhaps the what tosh bit was, but unless you start putting in boundaries, the future probably will be as I surmised. I know you don't want to hear that, but sometimes the truth hurts.
You've acknowledged that what you are doing now isn't working and you are open to suggestions which is brilliant and bodes well for the future. Good luck.
I've never read 123 magic but I did count to three and then imposed a consequence and it was effective. Don't tell them what the consequence will be in advance (just say there will be a cinsequence) as then they can't choose whether it is worth it or not to stop. If they don't know what it will be they don't know if it will be something they will hate or not. It also stops you dishing out things in haste that you regret later. Also I could say things like "we were going to the park but now we are not" when that was never on the radar anyway. They thought they'd had a consequence but they hadn't really.
As I said when they know you mean what you say, you only have to threaten a consequence and they will stop. The rest of the time you can be a fun mum. Fair but firm.

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

BakeOffBiscuits your post is very inspiring.

There's something that I haven't really said as I know it'll be shot down. But I don't want to teach her how to blindly obey orders. Saying "no" all the time, or sending her to the naughty chair - I can't see how those things will be for the best in the long run. So comments like "the teenage years will be fun" - I'm obviously very inexperienced, as she is only almost 3, but the whole idea of being inclusive and positive with her is with everyone's long-term happiness in mind.

I know that'll be an extremely unpopular stance on here, but there it is.

[NoCapes]

Nobody is suggesting you get her to blindly follow orders by just saying no though?
You say "no we don't touch taps they're hot" "don't climb up there it's dangerous you might fall" etc etc

[pointstaken]

oh good god, this is not a real thread, is it?
I am always amazed by the parents who refuse to parent, let their little darling "express their individuality and freedom" and that sort of crap, but then dare complaining against the result.

If you don't want to impose boundaries on your child, it's completely fine, but don't moan about the result or accept you have to impose some rules. There was another mother in tears because her snowflakes was hitting everybody, parents and baby, but saying "no" was unacceptable. What can you say...

Your child is nearly 3. She understands A LOT. You can tell her no, you can explain things, she will get it. You can punish her (naughty corner/ naughty chair, reward sticker, take away a toy, different things work for different children), but give her some credit. A lecture is silly, but simple explanation and order are fine. If you say the kitchen is open only for cooking with mummy, your child will understand. of course, you need to repeat things a few times. Of course kids have energy to spend, it's hardly news that they need to go outside to run for a few hours every day.

I have never put a baby gate in my house, because I have never needed to. My kids understood early enough that "no" means "no". Of course you are behind them constantly when they are 1, but at 3 they are old enough to know better.

I feel a bit sorry for a little person who is used to complete (and unreasonable) freedom at home, but has to obey to strict rules at school. What a terrible shock. And poor teachers who have to deal with them.

[cantkeepawayforever]

I also think it is worth thinking really carefully about what your boundaries are, and then being absolutely rigorous about enforcing them - what a friend of mine described as 'total freedom within an electric fence'. So if there is no climbing on furniture indoors, there is no climbing on furniture indoors - and if that means purchasing a special set of steps for her to use when you are baking, so be it. Equally if she may not go into the bathroom without an adult, dad can't decide to send her in there alone one day because he's watching the tv - it has to be consistent.

I used to allow my DCs to do things that others thought were quite dangerous - scoot to school pre-school quite a long way ahead, that sort of thing. However the boundaries were well known - stop at the edge of every kerb (even if your friend doesn't), be by me for a specific stretch etc etc. If they had gone over one of the boundaries, the scooter would have gone.

[pointstaken]

But I don't want to teach her how to blindly obey orders.

you are nuts.

I want mine to stop when I say "stop, there's a car", and I want them to stay safe and happy.

I am not sure your goal for happiness works well, you sound very stressed. My kids are lovely, they have their moments, but they have never driven me up the wall like yours does. (according to you).

Again, I don't care how you raise (or not raise)your child, but you are the one complaining about the result of your (lack of) method. Don't get annoyed by people's answers.

[dowhatnow]

But you can be inclusive and positive with her 99.5% of the time precisely because she has clear boundaries the rest of the time. If those boundaries are blurred then that positivity will be less because you are unhappier with things.
My dd 16 year old has recently (unasked) said I was a good mum and she has great memories of her childhood. I never do consequences now because the groundwork was all done when she was young. We duscuss things only and I trust her to make the right decisions. She laughed when I told her recently about the made up consequences I spoke of in my last post.
Consequences do not mean that there can't be positivity and inclusivity,

[Graphista]

But safety comes before self awareness and critical thinking - even for adults.

My dd is opinionated, forthright, assertive, challenging, questions authority - in effective polite ways. She's won regional debates and uses the same damn skills at home she still got told 'no!'

As she gets older and her cognitive processes evolve your parenting evolves, you adapt together.

I've a 16 yr old that shouts at question time!

Plus you can still praise when she asks good questions or even just 'why? Why? But why?' As in 'why do we have roads?' 'Why do some people have long hair?' 'Why is the sky blue?' (I had to research that one I knew but couldn't explain it to a 5 year old)

[cantkeepawayforever]

It is entirely possible to phrase all instructions positively, if you don't like 'no' (and naughty step didn't work for us, because we ended up with escalating punishments because DS didn't sit there - context-specific consequencesd worked brilliantly instead).

So if you would prefer to say 'To go into the bathroom, you must have an adult with you' then it is is a perfectly reasonable positive version of 'No, you may not go into the bathroom alone'. 'Climbing is for the park' is a positive version of 'Don't climb on the furniture'; 'We are playing with bricks today, rather than baking' is a reasonable alternative to 'No, we are not baking today so please leave the eggs alone.'

The boundaries are the same, you can choose the language as you wish. It's the same at school - we will use 'In school, we sit quietly' rather than 'Don't wriggle on the carpet'.

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

"You've managed to avoid the no phase 😂😂😂

Instead you have a 3 year old who is ruling the roost and mashing your make up into the sofa 😏"

Well, what I'm saying is that constantly saying "No" isn't without its problems either.

Guys - some of you need to calm down. I'm not raising a demon. I am just a normal mother like all of you, with a kid who is a climber. It's annoying and I was asking for practical tips about how to keep stuff out of reach.

She's not destroying anyone else's houses, she's not an isolated pariah from her peers, she is a normal, well-liked kid with a lot of energy.

I can and will step up my boundaries and will listen to advice. When people start getting shrill and judgey, I switch off tbh.

[SuperFlyHigh]

Discipline is essential, how will she ever learn what is right and wrong otherwise?!

I agree from 18 months as Graphista says they understand "no". In fact you're doing her a favour by starting now as once she starts preschool or nursery they'd expect her to understand "no" and basic what not to do and they may not be as gentle as you are being.

[Olympiathequeen]

3 yo stashed some keys in shoe box but craftily only a few so we thought we had lost them. Paid £150 for new car key and then found the stash.

I would look at a locked cupboard but I know where you are coming from with the climbing.

[grannytomine]

Agree with pointstaken, blindly obeying orders can be a lifesaver. I don't think kids should have to ask permission to breathe but they need to understand no and they need to obey.

The idea that all kids are better behaved at playgroup/nursery/school or whatever is just that, an idea. Some kids are much better behaved at home, some are better behaved at an organised activity and some are well behaved at both. Think about why she behaves for other people and not you, do you need to give her more attention, does she need more structure. She clearly does know how to behave if she does it for others so you need to work out where you are going wrong.

I have 4, all grown up now and I've had the angels and the demons and the in betweens, one thing I have learned is that you need to work with what you've got and you have a livewire and you have to learn to cope with that.

[Olympiathequeen]

You and me both have demons then?

DS2 goes to nursery every morning and we try to go out to soft play, swimming or meeting friends in the afternoon, and visit grandma at the weekend too. He is usually too worn out to wreck the place as he is doing at the moment as we don't dare go out as he might be brewing chicken pox!

[LouKout]

Yes you need to start teaching her.

in meantime locks are your friend (my 5 foot tall DD is into everything like a toddler, i know this situation well)

[cantkeepawayforever]

How many hours of exercise she gets each day is another thing to think about. DS was evil without a couple of hours every day, and i can understand that that is more difficult in a flat. Does she have something like one of those small trampette / trampoline things (we were lucky and had space for a big garden one), or can you dance / keep fit etc together? Yes, i had to spend hours outside in the garden watching them - and maintaining the boundary of 'only 1 child on the trampoline at once' - but it was sanity preserver,

[Aeroflotgirl]

Op you are making a rod for your own back, at 3 normally excluding SN, they should understand 'no', you should be using that if she is taking things out of your bag. Would you be happy that she rifles through other people's bags, or when you visit houses, turns it upside down. Yes there should be sanctions if she keeps doing this, it could be dangerous if she swallows something she is not supposed to.

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

"Shut the bathroom door? If she keeps opening it introduce a consequence (if you climb on there again and turn the taps on I wont let you watch telly after lunch) Or put a lock at the top of the outside of the door so only you can reach it. If she turns on the hot tap she might end up scolding herself which would be horrible."

She has to go into the bathroom to pee!

If I use removing TV as a threat, I feel like it makes TV seem like the best thing in the world.

And she doesn't do stuff like burn herself on the hot tap because she knows how the taps work through supervised exploration

I know that sounds wanky but it's true and I can't think how else to express it

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

"Also this modelling good behaviour thing isn't really paying off is it?"

Actually it is because she's sweet-natured, kind, helpful, thoughtful, confident and fun.

[Jux]

Buy something tall and free standing and then you'll have high places. OTOH, teach your child what is and what is not OK.

[2014newme]

She needs to learn what she can touch and what she can't. No climbing on tables, chairs, toilet etc. It's dangerous. When she starts nursery or school those are the type of things she will not be allowed to do.
You aren't teaching her life skills by letting her do these things and you are putting her at risk.
You need to change your parenting.

[pointstaken]

I can and will step up my boundaries and will listen to advice. When people start getting shrill and judgey, I switch off tbh.

coming from someone who is judging parents who are a bit more "strict" and impose boundaries to their kids....

You just describe a child who sounds terrible at home (damaging and destroying things, losing things), it doesn't sound safe and frankly not acceptable for a nearly 3 year old. The only things locked and out of reach in my house are bleach, medicine and matches. I can't advise you on hiding everything in the attic for safety when I think you should work on imposing rules to your kid so you can have a more relax and happy time at home together.

[Foureyesarebetterthantwo]

I have to check my bag 5 times before we leave the flat as she has form for taking stuff out - my keys, my wallet etc. She gets into my makeup and ruins it, gets it on the furniture. finds pens and draws on walls, pulls clothing out of cupboards and drawers, breaks things in the kitchen add climbs dangerously...

Obviously this is the consequence of your permissiveness. All children do these things occasionally (I remember fondly now the time my dd aged 3 found a permanent marker and managed to mark over 20 surfaces before I found her in the two minutes I managed to go to the toilet). It's a learning opportunity that you seem to be avoiding for some reason.

You switch off when someone tells you something you don't like, so does your daughter! You obviously came here for a moan and some advice, because this level of chaos is intolerable and probably not that nice for your dd to be constantly doing the 'wrong' thing in a desperate attempt to find the boundaries. You've had some great advice here, of course it is up to you whether to take it.

[paxillin]

I think clearly defined expectations as well as enforced rules are the reason so many home-time demons are angels at nursery.

They are no less curious there. They have learned that taking apart a construction toy or dissecting a blade of grass= curiosity and fine. Taking apart the teacher's bag or destroying another child's stuff= wrong and consequences.

[Dragongirl10]

Oh op, Of course you must parent how you want,...
but think how you feel when you are in a restaurant surrounded by badly behaved children, shouting, running around disturbing everyone..
think how you will feel when the disruptive kids in class cause so much chaos the teacher cannot teach and no child learns anything because of it ....
Think how you will feel when no other parent will invite your child to a playdate as she will not treat their home with respect and sit nicely at the table for tea...
think about every situation you have experienced where horrid badly behaved kids have been.....

You could be raising that child.

I have the total opposite views on parenting,

Mine were in a playroom with a gate until 3yrs old, were tought to sit at a table and eat politely from 2 yrs on,
l briefly told them my expectations on behavior before we got out of the car to go to a friends house or party, or any other event and the consequence of not behaving as expected, ie we will leave immediately and go home to early bedtime. (l only had to carry it out once)
They know No said calmly once means just that, if they climbed at 3 I lifted them don told them firmly not to do it again or X. and always carried out X.
No need to shout, discuss or argue.

Consequently by school age they could always be trusted to behave well at school, be polite listen to instructions, sit at a restaurant etc