"Put it up out of reach"

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

My 3yo toddler is into everything and it's driving me up the wall!

I have to check my bag 5 times before we leave the flat as she has form for taking stuff out - my keys, my wallet etc. She gets into my makeup and ruins it, gets it on the furniture. finds pens and draws on walls, pulls clothing out of cupboards and drawers, breaks things in the kitchen.

We rent so I can't make too many amendments to the place. We do have two high shelves but they are literally the only place I can put things that she can't get to! She climbs onto the kitchen counters, uses chairs to reach onto the dining table - nowhere is safe any more

Even the bathroom cabinet is accessible to her by standing on the loo.

AIBU to wonder where all these "up out of the reach of toddlers" places are? Does anyone else struggle with this?

[ILostItInTheEarlyNineties]

It's hard but just keep saying No in a firm voice, get down on her level with eye contact. Then don't reward her with your attention as she will link being "naughty" with earning time with you.

Keep the language simple and be consistent. So the same consequence every time. Good luck, some children are just very inquisitive and determined. It's not easy.

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

BaggyCheeks excellent post and helpful advice! Thanks!

I do try to involve her as much as possible, will double down on this. (Backfires sometimes - I've been showing her how to crack eggs whenever we cook with them, and now she's always dragging a chair to the fridge and trying to get to them...)

[ILostItInTheEarlyNineties]

And definitely reward all her good behaviour! If she's sitting quietly playing with toys, looking at a book then make a huge fuss about how pleased you are.

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

Elspeth thank you so much!

I usually follow the RIE method but I struggle with certain elements of it and have never got my head round exactly how you are supposed to deal with discipline-type stuff

[SquinkiesRule]

We got some over the door coat hooks I found them in Home bargains, then I used to hang my handbag and coat up together out of reach.
You may not like or want to punish her, but you aren't doing her any favours, she's 3 not a little baby. She must learn right from wrong and not to touch and it's your job to teach her. It's easier to do now than in a few years when she's not getting invited to play at friends houses or party invites because she's that kid who won't listen and causes damage.

[AccioWine]

I would say the same as WateryTart (fab username btw) - repetition, as tedious as it is, does usually work, as well as consistency. Each time she does it, do/ say the same. She will soon learn.
Curiosity is a great thing, except when it's not!!

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

megletthesecond llangennith thanks for the solidarity.

paxillin I definitely agree that she wants to please and not hurt. But removing specific things makes no difference to her and explanations of my hurt feelings are like water off a duck's back.

Just reading the pdf of 1-2-3 parenting, the "Talk-Persuade-Argue-Yell-Hit Syndrome" thing is so interesting. I've never hit DD but I definitely have shouted which I'm not proud of. It basically says "don't try to reason with the kid, they are not rational or logical"

[dowhatnow]

She is behaving differently/better at preschool because they have boundaries in place, not just because kids behaviour is worse with their own parents.

You can be firm but fair. You don't need to be shouting or harsh, you just need to enforce rules with consistent consequences. A few well thought out consequences to begin with and then you rarely have to give more because the child has learnt that you mean what you say.

I think you think that once you start this road you will constantly be punishing. This isn't so, because they learn not to repeat that particular behaviour therefore no more consequences are needed, except for occasional reminders when they begin to push the boundaries again.
Short term pain for long term gain. So a short sharp consequence then pleasantness because you don't need to be moaning/frustrated about that thing anymore. So far more pleasant for your child. You are doing her a favour.

[Stopyourhavering]

The teenage years are going to be fun!

[ppeatfruit]

She isn't 3 she's still 2 and she's a climber. SOME children are like this ( I know it's a pain). Saying NO all the time is nonsense. All that teaches them is to say NO all the time

Use postive reinforcement, like a pp said, give her own bag which you can buy something specially as a reward if she listened to you. You DO have to shadow them at this age. Give her some difficult for her age books and toys. Talk positively to her.

[Graphista]

Meh, been looking after kids for 30 years+ toddlers want to touch EVERYTHING your job to teach her she can't.

Just looked at RIE brief look admittedly but no children are not born fully competent!

I'm always sceptical of parenting advice from people who've done little childcare and are basing their theories on science alone.

Parenting is a combination of logic, instinct, art and experience.

Prolonged explanations at this age simply don't work.

Yes it gets repetitive but it works, billions of parents gave learnt this either hard or easy way,

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

"What do you do when you have visitors - does she rifle their bags?" Interesting question - I don't think so, she does like sitting with them and being quite social, or she's scampering about making mischief as usual.

I think the bag thing is a bit of a red herring, sometimes she does it, not always, I probably made it sound like she is obsessed with bags. It's just one of many things that she likes to pull out, like the clothes in the cupboard.

What about going to other peoples' houses- is she climbing all over their furniture?

"What about when out and about - running across roads etc?" No, she holds my hand really well, but she does occasionally wander off when we are in the park. Or if for example she doesn't want to come in the front door with me when we get home - if she decides she wanted more time on the swings, for example - she'll just turn around and make to walk off back towards the park.

[LisaMed1]

Here is a link to a list of child locks on eBay. Hopefully one or two will have a magical combination of affordable, acceptable to landlord and effective against child.

baby locks on eBay

You may also have some success with stuff like fridge locks

I didn't have this issue, but that doesn't mean I don't feel your pain. Good luck.

[Foureyesarebetterthantwo]

Some children respond well to parents saying 'no' in a firm voice. I had one like that.

Some children completely ignore parents saying 'no' in a firm voice, indeed will giggle and keep going. I had one like that too.

With the second, you do need to have a different method of boundaries in your home. The 123 Magic looks excellent, and I found for this type of child, ignoring them or positive praise doesn't work as a method of getting them to stop doing dangerous things (which would with the first child)- they needed immediate removing and putting in time out/away from the danger.

OP you can't just throw up your hands and say I can't help it if they climb on the worktops- your child could be in danger by their not listening/defying you, in the future, when they cross a road or fall from the counter. I would try the 123 Magic, get the book or go to classes. Some children just require a firmer and non-emotional way of understanding the boundaries- and all reasoning, further attention, ignoring, positive 'let's go and make cakes!' distraction just don't work with them!

If I'd had my second child first, I'd have thought saying 'no' in a firm voice was all there was to discipline! I never counted to three with her as she would stop at 1.

[LisaMed1]

When ds tried running off I warned him then skipped his bedtime story. That worked for him.

[NoCapes]

she's 3! She's not a baby
Tell her no and move her away, Jesus even my 16 month old responds to that

[ppeatfruit]

Do cooking with her , keep her positively busy and praise her when she being quiet and creative (not good) She's not being naughty, it's a normal developmental stage in some children.

I too have had long experience with early years both professional and personal.

[Graphista]

'There's no reasoning with them'

So true!

I once had to have a word with myself as I found myself debating with a 4 year old dd about why we have bedtimes! Nuts!

Caught myself on and went 'enough! Bed and sleep now!' Not shouting firm.

Yes all kids are different and some (sigh thinks of D nephew) need more repetition than others, but they get there, if you're clear and consistent.

[Graphista]

Yes lots of praise for good behaviour too.

2:1 praise to criticism at least.

[BakeOffBiscuits]

She sounds very confident . Which is good IMO.

I agree with not punishing, but as others have said you do need to discipline.

So if she continues to do something which she has been told not to do- like trying to get eggs out of the fridge, I would say "that's a shame, we won't be able to bake a cake/make that omlette as all the eggs will be used. Come and help me sort out X/y/z". Hopefully she will do as you ask, if not go and physically take her away from the fridge and take her into another room, repeating why she can't have the eggs.

When outside, if she runs away/ won't come to you say "We need to go quickly because we've need to feed the hamster(insert whatever she likes I find promise of chocolate always works)

She needs alternatives. I did this with mine, so no shouting, punishments only if they had been horrible to someone else (very rare) and lots of suggestions of alternative ways to spend their time.

I've now got two lovely, confident young women who are getting on very well in the world.

[BakeOffBiscuits]

Gosh, yes I forgot the praise for good behaviour, that's more important than anything.

[GoingQuietlyInsane]

ILostItInTheEarlyNineties thanks for your measured words of wisdom. Expatosaurus great idea about the lockable bag.

I think DP and I need to have a brainstorm about how to contain stuff. I will work on the boundaries but I also need to set her up for success a little - she just isn't the type to respond to a firm "no" so it's easier for us all if she can't access stuff for now til she's a bit older.

[ILostItInTheEarlyNineties]

I think we've all man handled a stubborn toddler out of the park! Don't be too hard on yourself.

She sounds like an ideal candidate for some tumble tots or similar with all her confident climbing. You may have a talented gymnast on your hands (and it'll use up of some of her energy).

[RedBugMug]

as others have said, she's 3, you need to start getting tough with her, explaining what she an and can't do.
your handbag, your precious posessions should be out of bounds as should anything dangerous.

and it looks like she needs more supervision.