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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Muslim prayers

426 replies

Amibeingtoosensitive · 14/03/2017 19:11

My DD (9) had R.E today
They were learning about Muslim prayers. All fine.
They then went on to get prayer mats and say a Muslim prayer, with their shoes off, on their knees as a group.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable about my DD being made to do a religious practice we do not believe in.

OP posts:
BartholinsSister · 16/03/2017 21:20

superstaary

Muslim prayers are very complicated. ..... Its the very specific recitation of Arabic that is important

Can your god only understand Arabic?

BertrandRussell · 16/03/2017 21:21

"Its awfully wrong and rude to suggest that parts of their faith are not "nice"."

Is it? Wht if they aren't "nice"?

Anon1234567890 · 16/03/2017 21:39

Alfieisnoisy, I agree it is possible to look at stories in religious texts and discuss them without indoctrinating children into believing they are real. Its just not done very often or very well.

The particular point I was replying to was about the stories only discussing the 'good' side of the text... eg Noah's flood is often taught in Primaries as a wonderful thing that God did. I have never heard it being contrasted with the genocide that accompanied it.

Where is the lesson teaching the critical facts about how a historical global flood was literally impossible?

As for Islamic prayers being impossible in a class room. Well I know for a fact that my DCs school were able to push tables aide and do PE with 31 in the classroom, from Yoga to running games. Its possible.

EnormousTiger · 16/03/2017 21:58

Depends how it's done. I have never objected to my children being taken to synagogues, that wonderful Neasden place with all the marble, churches and all the rest (they are atheists) and I hope they are polite to everyone although they retain a right to assert their view there is no God of course.

Bambambini · 16/03/2017 22:11

My son says the school expects them to pray. Why would they tell the kids to put their hands together and pray as Christians - no matter what they believe in?

woodhill · 16/03/2017 22:15

Yes, why do Moslem prayers have to be in Arabic?

Limer · 16/03/2017 22:16

The "disrespectful" thing. As a headline that's always wrong. It's not disrespectful to mock and condemn a religion that's wholly misogynistic, is it?

Strikes me that religion, even these days, always gets the ultimate trump card to play. Society says, "you can't do that, it breaks our rules!". Religion says, "It's our religion". And we get a community where girls can't swim, play, dance or do sport, because of religious dress codes.

Surely the law of the land should trump any religion?

superstaary · 16/03/2017 22:19

Bartholinssister dont be so ignorant. The prayers that the OP claims were being mimicked are performed in Arabic, unchanged since the beginning of Islam. At the end of this prayer is when a Muslim gives his own personal message to God in whichever language he choses. Why pick on someone else's beluefs, they dont harm you.

superstaary · 16/03/2017 22:20

*beliefs

superstaary · 16/03/2017 22:22

Woodhill its Muslim, not Moslem.

LilQueenie · 16/03/2017 22:24

I dont see the harm if its a one off to learn about it. Bit different if its forced on them. Much like the 7 healthy habits programme Angry

EnormousTiger · 16/03/2017 22:25

it's like Latin was in the Christian churches. A lot of religions rely on mystery to control people and what better way to do that by having some kind of superior language for that. Then we get the talking in tongues of some evangelicals which is fascinating too.

As for secular schools dealing with religious issues it's always hard but yes truth and science should always prevail over myth and religions belief. However that does not mean atheist children should not be taught what others believe and should be taught to be polite to everyone.

We do though have a right to offend others thankfully - Je suis Charlie and long may that last in the West.

superstaary · 16/03/2017 22:26

Limer it is rude to mock anyone's beliefs. And please don't let cultural beliefs get mixed up with religion. Islam is not misogynistic, some of the people who practice it may be, but the religion itself is not.

superstaary · 16/03/2017 22:30

Enormous tiger the reason for the prayers being in Arabic is not to mystify. As well as memorising the prayers, Muslims do learn what they mean

1horatio · 16/03/2017 22:32

Bit different if its forced on them

Well, if a teacher tells you to do something... Or maybe even if it's framed as a suggestion/question. Children tend to do what their teachers say.

OopsDearyMe · 16/03/2017 22:35

Sorry ? Clearly I missed the part I should be embarrassed about? Generally I don't suffer with embarrassment, but then I try to be a decent and moral person who automatically respects others rather falls into the modern irritation of believing someone should always have to earn respect.

Sadly your response is what I expected , there is always a jaded bitterness in atheists that seems slightly jealous or sulky, that those who have a faith are able to be comfortable with having simple faith.

Considering there are a great deal of non church going people who STILL tick C of E on forms, shows that actually we still are a christian country and more people have a spiritual aspect to their lives than you imagine.

Just because you may have had a bad experience does not mean that is the case for all churches and all religions, it certainly should not mean you disrespect anyone else.

BertrandRussell · 16/03/2017 22:37

"Islam is not misogynistic, "

Yes, people say that about Christianity, too. And Judaism.

1horatio · 16/03/2017 22:42

it is rude to mock anyone's beliefs. And please don't let cultural beliefs get mixed up with religion. Islam is not misogynistic, some of the people who practice it may be, but the religion itself is not

Are you willing to say the same about Christianity? Judaism? It's just the people. Not the religion...

Limer · 16/03/2017 22:43

superstaary so where does religion end and cultural belief begin? What if those practising the misogynism believe it's religion, but it isn't? ANYTHING misogynistic deserves to be mocked, ridiculed, derided and brought down. Girls and women deserve equal rights by law. Whatever barriers exist to those equal rights need to be dismantled sharpish.

Bambambini · 16/03/2017 22:43

The main religions should be criticised and mocked - they are all a bit nuts, controlling and misogynistic.

BartholinsSister · 16/03/2017 22:46

Why pick on someone else's beluefs, they dont harm you.

Are we only allowed to ask questions of people whose beliefs harm us in some way? How am I to become less ignorant?

1horatio · 16/03/2017 22:49

religions should be criticised and mocked - they are all a bit nuts, controlling and misogynistic.

That's a great way to make sure children with religious parents won't be in that class/school.

Seeing as the children in that class would be from agnostic/atheist households you may just end up preaching to the choire.

superstaary · 16/03/2017 23:15

1horatio I wouldnt judge a religion as misogynistic based on someone claiming to practice it being misogynistic. You may do, but thats not me.

Limer misogyny absolutely needs to be eradicated, but like I said Islam itself isn't misogynistic, some of the people that prsctice it are. Just like some of the people who claim to practice Christianity or Judiasm may be misogynistic. Ridiculing someone's beliefs because you fail to differentiate culture from religion says more about you than it does about any Muslim.

Bartholinssister your post didnt read to me as if you wanted to educate yourself or become less ignorant. It definitely had a mocking air to it.

Just as the OP wanted, this has turned into another religion bashing thread, though it hasn't been restricted to just Muslim bashing this time for a change. Well done OP especially as your "story" didnt appear to have Muslim villan in it for once Biscuit

Bambambini · 16/03/2017 23:20

"Islam is not misogynistic, some of the people who practice it may be, but the religion itself is not."

So what - you can't wax lyrical about the "true religion" when it's not generally practised as such. Culture and power is all too wrapped up in it.

1horatio · 16/03/2017 23:21

I wouldnt judge a religion as misogynistic based on someone claiming to practice it being misogynistic. You may do, but thats not me.

Actually, up to now I've judged religions after reading at least parts of their very own divine texts/scriptures.