Muslim prayers

[Amibeingtoosensitive]

My DD (9) had R.E today
They were learning about Muslim prayers. All fine.
They then went on to get prayer mats and say a Muslim prayer, with their shoes off, on their knees as a group.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable about my DD being made to do a religious practice we do not believe in.

Of course I realise that everyone thinks their god is the real one, otherwise what would be the point! Nope I was born in England darling !

Righty ho then..

Well I'm sorry but I don't actually think your religious beliefs deserve any automatic respect, so you'll forgive me if I dont give them any.

Your ranting post concerning 'atheist mantra' was embarrassing, and your reply to my question makes about as much sense.

Why is your god the real one?

as a christian we are told not to worship false gods

You do realise that to Muslims, Hindu's, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses and all the others, your god is the one that is 'false'

Yes. But that's not the issue here. It doesn't matter whether a religion is the "truet" one or not.

What does matter are issues like religious freedom, giving the parents the opportunity to have their children opt out, making public schools as inclusive as possible for children of every faith (and worldview).

I don't actually think your religious beliefs deserve any automatic respect, so you'll forgive me if I dont give them any

You don't have to. But it's different when somebody is teaching RE... Said person should respect their pupils' and the parents' religious views.

Said person should respect their pupils' and the parents' religious views.

Nope. When the school have to run every lesson past the parents, that's when bigotry and censorship creep in.

What does matter are issues like religious freedom, giving the parents the opportunity to have their children opt out, making public schools as inclusive as possible for children of every faith (and worldview).

I couldn't disagree more. Why are faith schools allowed to exclude? And more importantly- children dont actually have a 'faith' because from the beginning they are too young to make an informed decision, they are told what to believe by religious parents, and observe the religious customs handed down to them. They are lucky if in adulthood they manage to escape- but as we can clearly see from this thread that is not always the case.

And it does matter which one is 'true', we have to ask these questions, because kids are being taught these things in faith schools, without any defence, it's what their parents choose for them. We shouldn't wrap faith up in an unquestionable bubble.

Just to point out that Christian's, Jewish people and Muslim's worship the same God - but the acts of worship are different.

as a christian we are told not to worship false gods

lol acting out a prayer is not "worshiping" anything it's just acting something out to see what it looks like. My DD's school visited a church and "acted out" a marriage ceremony. The kids aren't now married - they were just acting it out.

In lots of areas of England the only schools are CofE schools with constant christian messages in assembly etc. I think this is pretty rubbish personally but I don't see the people getting up in arms about muslim prayers worrying about that!

Christian's, Jewish people and Muslim's worship the same God - but the acts of worship are different

Has someone told them that? Because anytime I ask my Christian friends if they worship the Muslim god they always answer NO.

Whether its acting out praying or actually praying its irrelevant, it normalizes this sort of behavior. Children should be taught that some people take part in superstitious rituals but they should not be practicing them in non faith state schools.

And why is it only the 3 main religions that are informed? It should be a selection of the worlds historical and cultural systems on offer so they can actually make proper comparisons.

You shouldn't be filling kids heads with this nonsense, which is exactly how religion works, get them when they're young...
I don't think RE sets out to teach children to be religious though, its teaching them about the range of beliefs people have, and that we should all be respectful of what others believe. A lesson which this poster seemed to miss out on!

Terfinator - you said "There's no such thing as a Muslim/Catholic/Jewish/Jedi child. You cannot consent to being religious until you're an adult."

That's not how the religions view it. Why do they all have ceremonies for newborn babies? These ceremonies welcome the baby into the religion. The religion then counts that baby as theirs. The headline figures of "there are 1 billion catholics (or whatever) in the world" don't count adults ticking a box on a form, they count baby baptisms (or the equivalent).

Catholics dont worship the Virgin Mary

I grant you that its a long time since i was 13 and in church but i doubt the religion has changed that much

Also fairly positive that in RE 30 plus years ago we did the passover meal...or a variation of that

Do schools not do that sort of thing any more?

Should we be respectful of other people's beliefs? Really? Whatever they are? Why?

Yes, you can discuss their beliefs with them, if they're willing, and discuss how your views differ, but why would you think children should not be respectful of the religious beliefs of others?

I also disagree with what Terfinator said because I was very religious as a child and I know a few children now who are more religious than their parents. I started properly practising my religion when I was 7 which is pretty normal.
I think it's really sad that Christians don't believe that we share the same God.
My 2 younger sisters went to primary school in the U.K and they managed to learn about other religions without taking part in possibly offensive pretend performances of parts of those faiths, I really don't see how it's beneficial to the children. I can also understand why people of various religious and non religious backgrounds would object to it.

I don't think RE sets out to teach children to be religious though, its teaching them about the range of beliefs people have

Not quite true. It presents 3 religions as if they are valid choices and making their 'truths' acceptable beliefs to have. It would be like teaching creationism in science because some people believe it and its a valid choice to make. Or teaching flat earth-ism in geography and explaining some people believe this so its a valid choice, respect it. Or some believe 'man made' global warming is something invented by the Chinese so its acceptable to respect everyone who wants to burn as much fossil fuel as possible.

Just NO! I mean, just ... NO.

RE should teach children how to apply critical skepticism to all of the worlds beliefs, from global warming and life after death to Wicca and Islamism. They should NOT be encouraging them to take part in superstitious voodoo to see how it 'feels'.

Why do they all have ceremonies for newborn babies?
Because the earlier you start the indoctrination process the more likely it is to be successful. Belief in a religion requires a mind mature enough to hold independent beliefs. A baby has no ability to hold independent beliefs and therefore cannot be Muslim/Catholic/Jewish/Jedi.

"Yes, you can discuss their beliefs with them, if they're willing, and discuss how your views differ, but why would you think children should not be respectful of the religious beliefs of others?"

Why should i have to respect that the catholic church and islam treat men and women so differently? Or that some believe a male child has to be mutilated at birth or before they hit puberty?

Your DD was showing you what she'd learnt in RE class, I won't worry about it. She'll be showing you something different next week.

It's surely about respecting other people and their right to have belief isn't it? No matter whether we agree or not about those beliefs.

Religion is a factor for millions of people who DO believe. Understanding what those beliefs are is what religious education is all about. You don't need to believe in it or practise those beliefs...just have a basic understanding of them.

That understanding is not going to corrupt your child.

My son went through the whole baptism and holy communion thing and now refuses to attend church at all because he no longer believes. He wanted to explore it at the time, I went with him and explained stuff to him and he loved it . I can't see him ever going back to it all now.

It's like my friend who is the Catholic priest...his parents took him and his brothers to church until they were 16. He stayed...and eventually entered the priesthood. His brothers tell him to "leave the religion at the door" when he visits them. They don't attend church and he says hey are openly honest about the fact they are atheist.

Bertrand Dont you want other people to respect your beliefs too?

Not especially. I like people to be polite, but respect? Why?

Well said alfieisnoisy

I stand by my view that kids should be informed about different religions, and taught to be respectful of the views of others - this is not the same as teaching belief in a specific faith, as is done in faith school, that's an entirely different issue.
As adult and teens we may wish to engage in informed belief, with willing individuals on different beliefs, but that is worlds apart from stating that you don't have to respect a person who is a Muslim woman, because you don't like the way you believe she is treated.
If you teach children that they needn't be respectful of people with views they disagree with, that is surely teaching intolerance?

100% with Bertrand

Also, you can respect a person without respecting their beliefs.

Actually, I think you are right, I never thought about it like that before..I don't really care if people don't respect my beliefs...so long as I don't know. Politeness about beliefs is fine and way more genuine!

I don't see why saying that you do not respect beliefs means you won't be polite to people.

But the definition of 'respectful' is 'showing deference and respect', so how would you be polite without being respectful at the same time??