Kids vaccinations - I would like the view from mothers

[OddJobMan]

Hi All.

First off I am a man before you ask but would love the view from Mothers perspective.

I reside on another forum and the discussion on kids vaccinations came up... one guy (who is not a parent) said he believes that the government should make it compulsory for parents to vaccinate their children and be fined if they don't. I personally believe vaccinations are a good thing but forcing more and more on parents and throwing legal action at them on ever little thing is going a step too far and where does this control stop..

So what say you Mums... should..

A. The government force vaccinations on children and fine parents that don't.

or

B. Leave it up-to the parents to decide.

But lots of clear, factual, fairly balanced and evidence based information

There is plenty available already, all you have to do is look....AND be able or willing to differentiate between that and the tinfoil hatter bloggers and campaigners.
But biased people will find the information they want.

Star, your opinion (like everyone's) absolutely IS bullshit until it is backed up by the evidence base. Your anecdata are no substitute for proper controlled trials. If you can produce scientific evidence of that fresh air, nutrition and exercise are better st warding off infectious diseases than vaccination, please share this groundbreaking research with us. Otherwise, your ,ahi cal thinking is socially irresponsible - which is fine, being socially irrseponsible is not against the law; but don't expect your magical thinking to be respected just because you have a 'right to your opinion' - opinions are all equal, evidence is not.

There is more now. There wasn't eight or nine years ago when I was looking for it.

I mean, yes, presumably it was there buried in medical documents, journals and trials but I think most people would struggle with that. Make it accessible. Teach critical thinking and good evidence sorting in schools, too.

Fresh air. Good nutrition. Exercise

My ancestors were farmers - lovely fresh air, plenty of exercise, ate fresh organic food. Want to guess how many of their babies lived to adulthood?

The more information there is, the less people seem either able or willing to actually read and understand it.
People don't trust experts or science any more, its all about opinions and convictions and shouting louder.

StarUtopia

Yes, I will think about it. It's why I took the decision to spend quite a bit of money getting my boys the HPV vaccination privately. As someone who had a sister die of Ovarian cancer and a good friend die of Bowel cancer, I can see the value in protecting them from potentially 2/3rds of them!

BertieBotts

No, EVERYBODY knows a vaccine is not 100% safe or effective. However, most of us with a brain understand that to get to market in the first place and to be widely adopted all over the world, especially the NHS which has a high success threshold, that it has to work for at least a majority of people it's given to.

We don't need lots of clear evidence that people can understand. We need to stop telling everybody that their own bullshit opinion is most important. We need to start telling them that a healthcare professional knows far more about this than they do, and that we should listen to them.

I don't get the big revelation that vaccines do not protect 100% that anti-vaxxers always come out with, like they have just unveiled a massive conspiracy. Or asking that 'but if your children are vaccinated, why do you worry? Are you saying vaccines are not effective? Aha!!'

Vaccine efficacy and effectiveness rates are really not top secret. I have never been told by any doctor or nurse that being vaccinated means 100% protection. Does this really happen to everybody else?

It would be good to spare children the misery of chicken pox. I understand though that regular contact with the chickenpox virus throughout life has a preventative effect against shingles, so the NHS will be weighing up the likely complications (and cost, if we're being honest) of chicken pox compared to shingles in the elderly.

*a child spreading a cough or cold around the class is a far more danger than an unvaccinated child

this just doesn't make sense. not saying that coughs and colds aren't dangerous to vulnerable people - but surely if they are dangerous, measles/mumps/chicken pox/whooping cough/rotavirus etc etc are EVEN MORE dangerous?? confused*

People send their children into school with coughs and colds. They tend to keep a child with measles off.

My dp who has an upcoming operation to remove further cancer has gone down with a cold. If the operation is cancelled he might not be able to have the op. The parent who sent the child into school with a minor cough/cold who infected my dd could end up being ultimately responsible for my dps death.

My daughter (who I hadn't vaccinated) didn't catch it despite being in close proximity with my son. Work that one out!

See, now I've read books and what I remember from CSE science was that we have these things called genes, and everybody has different ones. Some people are naturally immune or less likely to get some things. It's why some people have freckles and red hair, and some people don't. Work that one out! Oh wait, we did. It's called FUCKING SCIENCE.

Fresh air. Good nutrition. Exercise. These are the best things we can all do for ourselves. Build a strong immune system.

Ah right, clearly the reason my mum is immuno-compromised is because she doesn't go outside enough? Not that she had breast cancer? Presumably a run around the Yorkshire dales would cure this? Blimey, why haven't the doctors recommended it?!

KatharinaRosalie

Nope, every vaccination I've ever had or witnessed has always come with the caveat that "this isn't effective for everyone, but it is effective for the majority and it's better to take the chance of being in that majority than not having it."

Apparently, anti-vaxxers think we've all been told it's some sort of miracle cure instead of the fact we're trying to minimise the amount of people who catch something instead of it becoming a pandemic like polio or measles used to be!

"People send their children into school with coughs and colds. They tend to keep a child with measles off."

But you are infectious before you are symptomatic aren't you? That's why the outbreaks happen.

I understand why you are annoyed about the coughs and colds. But if life stopped to that extent with low level illness, no parents could ever get to work - maybe one of those parents helps provide childcare to your partner's oncologist or surgeon, so that he can get to work and treat his patients?

Do your own research isn't as simple as that. Imagine being a young single mother, no family help and you Google (kids are taught that the Internet has the answers) "is x vaccine safe?" - you get a world of conflicting 'information' that suggests your kid is doomed no matter what.

Dh's niece's only reference for a while was her violent partner and her "do as I say" HV who'd already told her several things she knew to be wrong (put them in their own room and wean at 16 weeks). Google didn't help. Luckily she came back to the family and had lots of support and advice from people who knew where to look

But if life stopped to that extent with low level illness, no parents could ever get to work.

Well my dp is looking like his life is stopping, he won't work again.

No not forced, no fines, no ban on school/nursery entry.

My children had all the vaccinations apart from one. I had a very severe immune reaction to a vaccination I had in my teens, which effectively ruined my life, as I was ill for a number of years.

The doctors and nurses I spoke to were unable to give me any assurance that the same would not happen to my kids. If there was a reasonable risk say 10% etc I would have gone ahead but they were unable to give me any indication at all.

I think the medical establishment needs to treat parents as intelligent enough to make their own decisions based on a realistic assessment of risk, not just blackmailed into being sheep.

And FWIW my dp is dying so forgive me for saying that you "understand why I am annoyed"

ANNOYED I am fg fuming, devastated at my wits end all because someone along the line decided they couldn't take a day off work to look after their sick child.

I do think the fact that people can't have days off to look after their sick kids is a very big problem. People can't afford to take 2 days off when their kid vomits so they ignore the 48 hour rule not really thinking about the impact that has on other families.