Kids vaccinations - I would like the view from mothers

[OddJobMan]

Hi All.

First off I am a man before you ask but would love the view from Mothers perspective.

I reside on another forum and the discussion on kids vaccinations came up... one guy (who is not a parent) said he believes that the government should make it compulsory for parents to vaccinate their children and be fined if they don't. I personally believe vaccinations are a good thing but forcing more and more on parents and throwing legal action at them on ever little thing is going a step too far and where does this control stop..

So what say you Mums... should..

A. The government force vaccinations on children and fine parents that don't.

or

B. Leave it up-to the parents to decide.

We either value the right to choose what happens to our own bodies, in every aspect of life, or we don't

We don't, as a society. We make people do things they might not want to do, for their own good, with laws all the time. We mandate seat belts and helmets for example.
If people refuse to do the right thing off their own bat sometimes we have to make them.

My dc2 has only has one vaccine...this was after I was more or less bullied by health care professionals into having it despite a history with myself and dc1 having side effects (myself nasty ones dc1 not so nasty but still scary) and after a week of not knowing if dc2 would live or die or having any serious problems I can safely say I will not ever on my life ever let either of them have another vaccine.

The looks I get from gp's, consultants, health visitors and other parents make me wonder about the human race. I'm sorry but after it nearly killed my baby its not going to happen. And most people never even let me explain before you get the eye roll and tut, and mutters.

Having said that I don't disagree with vaccines (just don't ask me to do my child) and what may suit one child won't suit all, but alas this is down to cost,

at the end of day why should my child be excluded for problems which are medically not their fault?

Yes I am aware both my dc rely on herd immunity and I am grateful of people who do vaccinate.

It's not always black and white. This is a massive grey area.

It is black and white. Side effects are not a good reason to not vaccinate. I get side effects from my medication I take from depression, but considering the alternative is standing on a ledge wanting to throw myself off, I just manage!

Honestly, you are putting your life and your child's, as well as mine, in danger by not vaccinating. Your GP is right to give you funny looks - there's no good reason to vaccinate. Hell, even the religious can't be exempt now as they make forms of the vaccine for them too.

unless for medical reasons, no vaccination = no child benefits, free school etc etc

you wanna take advantage of society, you can do your bit too

B) don't force

Up to them but don't let them send their unvaccinated children to schools, creches etc, unless they have a medical exemption for a proper reason.

This. No playgroups, nurseries, state schools etc if you don't vaccinate unless you havr medical exemption.

I don't want to live in a nanny state so I would choose a middle ground although I am very, very pro vaccinations. I did read this morning that the Australian PM is considering banning unvaccinated children from schools. Good. I don't want my children compromised by other children!

Forcing people makes me feel a bit uncomfortable however it's not as though the government hasn't legislated to make decisions for people 'for their own good' before. Children of JW's who need blood transfusions for example.

It may well be true that many anti-vaxxers are highly educated but it's probably also true that they're not terribly good at researching the topic very well.

We vaccinate children in the main to protect the adult population.....
(who were vaccinated so long ago that their protection has mainly worn off) and they don't rush to top up their own immunity.

It's an easy and emotive hit.....

Wow my child nearly died and some muppets still thinks I should vaccinate - umm yeah I will book an appointment tomorrow..not.

Since this happened - I have been advised not to, And will continue to take the advice of a medical professional not some looney people on mumsnet.

Perhaps you should stop being the judge, juror and in this case my child's executioner.

it seems you have valid medical reason not to, so fair enough. but if your reasoning was jenny mccarthy, then tough

They made the smallpox vaccine compulsory circa 1860 in England with fines and imprisonment for parents who refused to have their children vaccinated. From the research I did, from the 1860s to early 1900s there was a strong anti-vax movement and their reasons for being against vaccines were very similar to the concerns of parents today. However, the fines and imprisonment didn't work, even with the added pressure of smallpox being highly contagious, commonly fatal and with the quarantine measures being particularly brutal in terms of damage to property and reputation.

Funny how some things never really change.

But that's the gamble we take with any medical procedure

And as with all gambles, the level of acceptable risk is for the individual to judge.

No! I have a very valid reason.

And no this decision was not made without serious thought and discussions with medically qualified people.

Hey ho I will pop off this thread now and cuddle my un vaccinated child back to sleep - all the while knowing I don't have the blessing of some people for making a choice to keep my child alive.

I just can't understand taking the risk. When my mum contracted the 'childhood illness' measles she spent three weeks lying in a dark room in the hope that it would protect her eyes and she wouldn't go blind. That was the best they could do. Her sister died of another childhood illness. My uncle can't have children because he had mumps.
A friend of mine managed to concuss himself falling in his flat last year because he contracted whooping cough. Had he been alone in his flat he might have been in real trouble when he hit his head, the coughing made him pass out.

Even being vaccinated does not necessarily completely protect you, I had my MMR and still got rubella due to an unvaccinated child at my primary school. Thankfully because I was vaccinated I have cold symptoms and a bit of a rash and two weeks off school!

Every child who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated. If that means telling parents their children can't access services such as school, nursery, play groups or whatever, then so be it.

GoodGirlGoneWrong - i cant find anyone arguing with you. no one wants to force it against medical opinion

I don't want compensation if things go wrong I want a well child. I have seen what happens first hand when things go wrong and wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy. No money can replace a child's life

That's what everyone wants.

I don't think it should be compulsory. I just think if people want it to be so then they can at least have the decency to make sure the compensation, and support, that is needed when it does is there, accessible and not bound by 500 rounds of red tape.

I say that because I know someone who is still waiting for their child to be compensated after Pandermix. The parent wants the compensation to right some of the issues the child has because of the vaccine - she wants tutors to help with missed school, but can't afford them, she has to work school hours because her DD can't get the school bus and she can't afford taxis.

A proper and fit compensation scheme has a place when people are calling for something to be mandatory.

It amazes me the disparity between those who are pro vaccination and anti vaxers. There is so much grey!
I actually am astonished that anyone would get their child vaccinated without reading up about them. I am equally astonished at those that spread fake news about vaccines.
I really don't think parents should be enforced or fined and as for being excluded from play/school settings, where does it end??
For instance if the chicken pox vaccine is introduced would that be a requirement even though chicken pox is rarely fatal and we've been living in this country without it thus far? What about people like me who have decided to vaccinate against everything except rotavirus because it's a live vaccine and myself and middle child have weakened immune systems??

Goodgirlgonewrong. You maybe have to admit that you are far, far in the minority but people choosing not to vaccinate because they're scared of the affects is what's harming children. Your child could well benefit from the herd affect but we simply do not have enough vaccinated children in the Uk for the herd affect to work. Children with compromised immune systems, under going Chemo or such can die from these illnesses. The vast majority should be vaccinated.

Just to pay Devil"s Advocate, what compensation for those harmed by the diseases?

We don't, as a society. We make people do things they might not want to do, for their own good, with laws all the time. We mandate seat belts and helmets for example.

Wearing seat belts and helmets doesn't come with a risk (albeit a small one) of death or disability. Those things are not invasive and they are things that come with a choice over whether to get in a car or ride a bike or whatever. Its not a fair comparison. We have the right to refuse any medical treatment we want, despite it being advised by medical professionals, there is no reason why vaccination should be any different.

I agree with many others; can't force parent but no vaccinations,no school/nursery unless they have a medical exemption certificate.

I'm still a bit gob smacked by the poster on page 1 who lives in a state where vaccines are compulsory except on extreme medical or sincere religious grounds.

Seriously. There's an entirely non evidence based reason for not vaccinating if ever I heard one.

I don't actually have the words to explain how I feel about that.

Leave it to the parents to decide.

If they want to make school other places conditional on some vaxes, OK, provided that not sending the dc there is an available option.

Besides being incredibly totalitarian, forcing vaxing does not work. I live in a country where certain vaxes are obligatory and everyone knows which doctors will take the vax, put it in the bin and put the sticker in the child's health book. So you end up not even knowing what your vax rate is in the event of an outbreak.

Not to mention the fact that the level of testing that has been done on vaccines is completely insufficient to guarantee the lack of any long term/more complex negative health effects which would not be picked up in the very short term, individual dose based testing that is required of the producers, so forcing it on children is profoundly unethical.

Its not a fair comparison. We have the right to refuse any medical treatment we want, despite it being advised by medical professionals, there is no reason why vaccination should be any different

Ok, if you want a fairer comparison, you don't have the right to refuse medical treatment for your children. If you don't believe in getting blood transfusions, for example, drs can get a court order to over rule you and do it anyway. Same for lots of other treatment, if you aren't acting in the best interest of your child, someone else can force it.

So no, vaccination shouldn't be any different, you are correct. If parents refuse to protect their children from serious diseases without a good reason, someone else should be able to over rule you and force it.