Kids vaccinations - I would like the view from mothers

[OddJobMan]

Hi All.

First off I am a man before you ask but would love the view from Mothers perspective.

I reside on another forum and the discussion on kids vaccinations came up... one guy (who is not a parent) said he believes that the government should make it compulsory for parents to vaccinate their children and be fined if they don't. I personally believe vaccinations are a good thing but forcing more and more on parents and throwing legal action at them on ever little thing is going a step too far and where does this control stop..

So what say you Mums... should..

A. The government force vaccinations on children and fine parents that don't.

or

B. Leave it up-to the parents to decide.

A website called "vaccine impact . com" - i'm sure that's totally impartial and has no agenda to push

Do you have any actual medical studies? The type that have been peer reviewed and cited numerous times?

a child spreading a cough or cold around the class is a far more danger than an unvaccinated child

this just doesn't make sense. not saying that coughs and colds aren't dangerous to vulnerable people - but surely if they are dangerous, measles/mumps/chicken pox/whooping cough/rotavirus etc etc are EVEN MORE dangerous??

I'm sorry but that link is scaremongering at its best. I have hpv, I've had cervical cancer removed and damn right I will be vaccinating my dd! I hope by that time they will be vaccinating the boys as well.

the anti hpv vaccine campaign is appalling, full of lies and half truths, with no basis for any of it. You should be ashamed of yourself posting such shit.

'let parents decide' has recently infected 3400 people with measles and killed 17 unvaccinated children in Romania. Unless you live in a hamster ball, this is a public health question.

That article completely misinterpreted what the American college of physicians said, which was that it "could possibly be associated with a rise in POF" but that there has "not been a noticeable rise" in POF since the vaccine has been introduced.

They do suggest that further investigation is required, and in this instance (where there are multiple versions of the vaccine some of which are not gardisil) it could be reasonable to prefer to use an alternative vaccine until further studies have been completed.

Nothing 100% prevents anything and nothing is 100% safe so I think that's an unhelpful way of looking at things; yes there's a risk of side effects, but that risk is low, so you need to look at the risks from not being vaccinated as well as the societal importance of vaccination. The main problem is that the evidence presented by anti vac sites is generally biased and often unsound. It's really hard to simplify the complex reports in a fashion that makes them easy to digest but maintains their integrity. The reports are complex because there are caveats around their results and the context in which they should be taken.

I'm shocked how many American women refuse to vaccinate their daughters against cervical cancer. Shame on them.
Being anti vaxxer by choice should be as anti social as being a drunk driver with kids in the car.

Star, did you actually read the statement by the ACPeds, or judt
St the highly biased press lease you linked to? From the statement:

"While there is no strong evidence of a causal relationship between HPV4 and ovarian dysfunction, this information should be public knowledge for patients and physicians considering these vaccines."

In other words, they're covering their arses, but basically nothing to see here as yet. They point out some shortcomings in the safety research and outline steps being taken to reinforce it and rule out a link.

Holding this up as damning evidence is pretty much illustrative of the scientific rigour of anti vaxxers.

Personally I think no on should be forced to vaccinate, but that those those kids that aren't should not be allowed in schools, hospitals or any other public space.

Swansea 2013 is a reflect illustration of what happens when a lot of people choose not to vaccinate. As for Andrew Wakefield he's caused so much damaged. Nasty man.
Shame on him, the lancet and the other authors as well as the media outlets who caused chaos.

Perfect not reflect.

Hospitals @onthecouchagain ?

I assume you'll be wanting all unvaccinated adults, or adults whose immunity has worn off also banned from hospitals then?

I think they should put up a family tree poster in surgeries to show the effect these diseases used to have.

My gr-gr-granny - 12 children, 6 dead from measles, 2 from tb and 1 from silent pneumonia.
My gr-granny - 14 children; 3 dead from measles, 4 from tb, 1 from influenza and 1 from bronchitis.
My gran - 4 children; 1 dead from complications following measles and 1 cot death
My mum - 4 children. All survived. 1 has complications from rubella.
Me - 5 biological kids. All alive.

Listen. I make my choices. You all make yours. The HPV vaccine does not impact on your health at all.

I am convinced it is not a vaccine I will be injecting. I hope to goodness it doesn't become headline news in years to come when we will be seeing the true effects of the vaccine after time.

I'm always a little surprised at the level of vitriol from vehement pro vaccine posters on these times of threads. Nasty doesn't cover it!

I've posted an alternative opinion and yet apparently my view is bullshit. Ok then!

lala Of course infant mortality rates have fallen. Living conditions and sanitation etc has improved massively. We are no longer squeezing 14 kids into slum conditions (on the main, thank goodness) Measles per se is not deadly. Measles on top of not being in the best of health is.

My uncle died in the 1950s from a disease that we now vaccinate against. My grandma never ever got over it. Knowing the pain she went through for sixty years and the aftermath issues until her death still tears at me.

But star people need to know that measles was a killer and could be again. And they weren't 14 children squeezed into a slum. They were 14 children from one of the better off families living in a house on a farm - yes they were living in shared bedrooms, but the city relatives fared worse.

"Slum conditions"?? Bit of a rude assumption there!

Sorry, "alternative view".

This is the problem with "do your own research". Nobody who propagates it can ever come up with anything compelling, it seems.

Oh, and my grandparents didn't live in a slum. They were in a rich area with two children in a three bedroom house.

Chickenpox can be just as fatal - and we don't routinely vaccinate against this. Nor is there an uproar from pro vaxxers that we should all be doing so.

I wasn't saying your grandparents did. I was just saying, in the main, people are better nourished now, better sanitation, better hygiene. We are generally stronger with good immune systems.

Vaccination does not give you 100% protection. This is the biggest myth. My son was/is vaccinated against Whooping Cough and still caught it. Horrendous. My daughter (who I hadn't vaccinated) didn't catch it despite being in close proximity with my son. Work that one out!
Likewise, both of my two have had chickenpox but daughter didn't catch it off my son (who was that bad he was hospitalised) - she caught it 12 months later from preschool.

Fresh air. Good nutrition. Exercise. These are the best things we can all do for ourselves. Build a strong immune system.

I'm out of this thread now. Nothing but vitriol for anyone who dares to question whether they would wholeheartedly inject their child with every injection going. Difficult to have a balanced view with such black/white opinions when in fact, the whole thing is a grey area.

This is not a balanced thread in the slightest.

I have always been very open minded about Vax, very willing to be 'educated'. Sadly the only 'evidence' ever presented by anti-vaxxers only ever seems to come from sites like Mercola, Natural News etc all. None of them ever seem to have actual, real peer reviewed research. I always ask for it, because I am genuinely interested. But am always disappointed.

Measles per se is not deadly

Yes, it is. It absolutely is. And that is just one reason why your "alternative opinions" on vaccines should be thoroughly shouted down.

Where I'm from in America you needed proof of certain vaccinations to be able to enrol your child. It seemed to work well.

Fresh air. Good nutrition. Exercise. These are the best things we can all do for ourselves. Build a strong immune system.

For fucks sake. Fresh air doesn't stop measles, fresh air doesn't stop complications from rubella, exercise didn't eradicate smallpox.

The best inventions that pretty much ever happened to the human race, a breakthrough that woman around the world would literally kill to get as easily as we do, and fecking eejits in the luxury of the UK go around spouting shit about fresh air.
Christ its depressing.

My opinion is that vaccinations shouldn't be compulsory, but school/nursery attendance can be denied to non vaccinated children. Obviously proper medical grounds are the exception. Religious beliefs of the parents aren't grounds for exemption.
I also believe that parents who withhold their children from vaccinations should be legally liable in the case of complications or death.

No legal requirement, no restriction on school entry.

But lots of clear, factual, fairly balanced and evidence based information. Not just fluffy "Of course vaccines are safe, don't worry parents!" stuff but actual detailed information which allays fears. Star is illustrating this nicely (sorry to use you as an example). In fact, yes, scientists and doctors who recommend vaccination know perfectly well that it's not 100% effective. This is not a lie and it's never been claimed, it's just an assumption that people hold which is often alarming when it's pointed out for the first time.

In fact vaccines are like any medicine, they aren't going to work on every single person. The reason that doctors aim for as close to fully vaccinated populations as possible is because this provides herd immunity, which protects those who can't be vaccinated as I'm sure you've heard, but also protects those who have been vaccinated but on whom vaccination didn't work. There's no way to check in advance if a vaccination will be effective on a person or not, but it's safer to vaccinate anyway unless they have increased risk factors for an adverse reaction.

I am very pro vaccination now, but I got pulled in by the anti vax crowd's claims when DS was little because at the time the NHS line just seemed to waft over fears with no substance and what the antivaxxers were putting out somehow seemed more plausible.

There are loads of good sources of vaccine info these days. Here's one (it's well sourced). If you're anti vaccination, hold on until at least 30 seconds, it starts unhelpfully, but it is a good video.