To think lots of MNers don't really know what it's like to raise a child with NO support network?

[notanothernamechangebabes]

I've read a few posts lately (and I do understand the POV of the posters) with people being annoyed by small children being taken to parties/ the hairdresser/ lunches/ weddings etc etc

I'm not arguing that they have a right to be annoyed - of course they do- but lots of the responses seem not to understand that for some people, they are parenting with literally NO day to day support network- family far away, no friends with kids, DP working all hours ... I'm one of them. I'm also breastfeeding and can't express- so can't leave DS with a babysitter at the moment.

I don't dispute that yes, there are some places it would be nice to get a break from kids... but AIBU to think MN could show a bit more compassion for women who have no choice but to cart their kids everywhere- or basically cut themselves off from their old lives, and never go to a pub/ wedding/ hairdresser/ naice restaurant etc again?

(Donning hard hat)

When we lived in London there were lots of people in that situation - none of my NCT group had any family support as all lived hundreds of miles away (including mine). The only childcare I had was paid for, and informal babysitting network with other parents. We spent over £100k on childcare for our twins in 4 years (we both work).,One of the reasons we moved back up to Manchester to be closer to family as I couldn't see how we could both continue to have careers when the children went to school without some family help.
Are there no crèches or anything near where you live, or any friends in similar positions who would do a babysitting club?

I understand OP, you have my sympathy. We moved to a rural area hundreds of miles from family for my DH's job just before we had kids. I've delayed medical appointments in the past to fit in with his work.

Do you go to any baby groups? They literally saved my life and by the time I had my second child I had a group of friends who were willing to take my eldest when I went into labour.

I understand OP. I had planned to birth dd2 alone as we had no one to mind dd1. It turned out the hospital were fine with dd1 being there and she sat outside the midwife station outside my room watching the tablet with headphones on.

I'm lucky in that I work so have a cm to look after dd1 &2 during the day and a dh who is generally home by 7pm.

My cousin said to me once she knows how I feel as she lives far from her mum and doesn't get much help.Her mum lives 40 mins away and used to stay over once a week when her dc were little. My mum lives 24 hours away. I just couldn't see the similarities!

Try being a lone parent to 2 DC with additional needs, no family close by, father to the DC being gone for good (and good riddance). Having a partner who works all the time is NOT the same. Really. Because when push comes to shove they will be there by your side. If anything happened to me so I couldn't look after my kids they have no one at all.

That's why I haven't been to a pub, wedding, party, meal with friends for at least 19 years.

YANBU.

I hate it when people ask what to do when they go back to work re childcare and people cite grandparents to babysit. It's a massive assumption to think the grandparents are still alive, capable of looking after tiny children, willing and available or retired. In fact I'd say my age group (30's) it's quite rare.

I also hate (and this usually crops up on the parent and child parking threads) "why are you taking children supermarket shopping?". Well Sandra, there's no fucker else to look after them as some of us have no partners or partners who work on weekends but now that you've made a condescending remark i think I'll leave my 3yo and newborn at home while I pootle around Asda. Cheers for that 🙄

I really want to reiterate- I don't think my example is a particularly compelling one, compared to many women's stories on here. I do have DP- his crazy schedule at the moment isn't a "forever" thing. It's just this project (and possibly the next ) but he does it so that I can stay at home, so me and DS can have nice times, eat good food... swan around like lots of women struggling by on lower incomes wish they could. And I'm very very grateful.

But I can't lie- despite my privileges- I HAVE been struck, since DS was born, by how much I wish I had family closer by.

I do go to baby groups, and actually set one up myself for other mothers living on the canals in London (as we do). But there's a big gap between meeting people once a week, and trusting them with the care of your PFB, or being able to spill your guts about the various anxieties of motherhood,or how you're worried about money, or whether your DP will still love you when you're out the other side of the crazy baby years (I know he will. I'm just giving for instances).

I have so much admiration for women going it "properly" alone - and can't imagine how that must be.

I've been really touched by some of your stories - and moved by the solidarity from others who feel isolated too.

And one last time- I really, really really don't think my life is that hard. Or unusual. Or worse than anyone else's- but I do think we could all lift up other mothers more, rather than isolate them yet further, and understand that circumstances aren't always what we'd wish them to be. Like we've seen (mostly) on this thread.

Taking off my hippy kaftan now.

cherry - haha!!! Exactly!!! And yet if you so much as leave DCs in the house while you peg out the washing, you're a SS case, because obviously the babies are going to set fire to the dog/ be snatched by a passing abductor/ suddenly develop a deadly raging fever ...

Damned if you do etc

In all fairness this is a rich/middle class thing. I have never been invited to childless anything in my predominately working class circles.

Well said, Astoria!

Oh interesting... so you think that for some (middle / upper class) people, taking the kids to social events or leisure activities is a sign of indulgence (self indulgence, indulging the kids etc) - whereas for the working class, it's just necessity?

Hadn't thought of it that way. Something to think on....

I would have loved to find a group of friends who would have been interested in a babysitting circle - but how do people think you do this? Was I supposed to advertise on Facebook or grill each new mum I met?

I have made some lovely new friends after I had the dc, but every single one has at least one grandparent nearby and always available for babysitting, emergency school runs, ill children, dog sitting etc

I understand too,

There is a lot of mums in the same or similar position on mumsnet and you can find lots of support and understanding.

But there will always be few who can't see out of there own bubble,

or who want to play who has it worst oylpimcs,

or don't see why you should have sympathy because "they didn't! They had to just get on with it so, so should you!"

When dc1 was born after dh took paternity, he then had one day of in next 3 months. It wasn't his choice, he was knackered and frustrated he was missing out on so much. He was working 6 - 6 (physical job) and also had to be on 24 hour call every other week. He wanted to Jack it all in, but obviously he felt great pressure, as he now had a family to support. I broke down many times in those first 3 months because I didn't even know what day it was, the mums I'd met at antenatal glass would get excited about the weekend as there dh would be around to take the pressure off, bankholidays they would be jumping for joy, I remember one time just sitting and crying and crying (I really didn't want to cry in front of them), then trying to explain why.

But no doubt someone will come along an tell me, that it didn't happen everybody gets days off or dh should have risked his job by refusing to work ect ect ect, and yes it was completely legal what the company was doing.

It's like when someone posted at Christmas that they where having important meeting between Christmas and new year, the amount of people who couldn't comprehend that that actually happens, was staggering.

I'm a single mother to a donor conceived child. My parents are dead, and there are obviously no grandparents on his side. I have no siblings. There is no one to babysit unless I hire someone.

But that's life. And everything is about choosing the right time and place for things.

I will take DS to the hairdresser (with a tablet and other activities to keep him quiet) because I need my hair done and it's not worth paying $25 per hour for someone to look after him if he's able to sit quietly in the corner of the salon. But I will hire a babysitter if I want to go and see a theatre show or have a night out with friends.

networks are easier to build if you work part time and are in a position to offer return help, much harder if you work full time, obviously look knackered or as some people have said, you have children with SN. Networks where you can trust each other to leave your children are very hard to come by though ime. I don't know how you get from casual acquaintance to proper friend without coming across as desperate either! Perhaps it's like dating and it helps if you look like someone people aspire to be or something.

Why isn't your dp your support network. Some mums have no dps or family. Why don't you leave dc with dp at weekend and go out?

one other person isn't a support network is it? Yes some people have no-one, why is this discussion about the worst case - the best case is having a proper network of people where children have multiple secure attachments.

DP is working 7 days a week, 7-7 at the moment. He has a very strange job (can't say what) and is on a ridiculous project at the mo which he can't takes day off from

If you are having an operation he can and he will take time off.

If you were injured or very ill he'd have to look after your child! A planned operation is no different, if you need it you need it.

I agree that building a network is not very easy. I never really had one.

But a lot of people don't have support because their not so darling/dear partner will not step up. That is different to being a lone parent with genuinely no support.

i don't disagree at all, being a lone parent with no help, or a divorced parent with breaks that rarely coincide with emergencies are not the same as having a dp working very long hours who can back you up in an an emergency (as long as they're not out the country) - i only wish there were more ways for everyone to build better support networks.

Woman's Hour on now, all about loneliness and parenting. I have to pop out to HV to get DS weighed, but it might be an interesting listen (will listen later on catch up)

Also - just seen posts about DPs.

You're right- women with no DP do have a harder time of it, if we must draw up a league table of difficulty.

But nobody in the world ever, went to a networking event of one other person and called it a success.

One partner does not a support network make.

Common situation around here.

What a load of mums did was to get together and start a babysitting network. I didn't really use it much due to dd's health issues- didn't feel it would be fair to inflict her on others- but apparently it worked very well. Yes, you had to take that leap of trust, but they spent a lot of time getting to know each other and no doubt felt it was worthwhile.

I'm an immigrant so my own family all live abroad and ILs were at the other end of the country- also ILs were frail and elderly so more likely to need our help than the other way around.

Tbh I always felt dh was my support network. We had a lot of health issues with our eldest in particular and it made all the difference to know that he was there as a rock to lean on. It did mean while the children were little neither he or I could go for a job/role that did not allow for us to work as a team, and I do know at least one other father of a disabled child who had to turn down promotion and reduce his hours- but we all got through. I am in my 50s and trying to rebuild my career now that dc are old enough to fend for themselves.

The kindest thing anyone has ever done for me was my mother paying for a day's child-minding a week for a year when ds was little just so I could go back to my job (which didn't pay enough to offset the childcare), because she could see that I was being worn down. That thoughtfulness still makes me well up.

Also, dh and I used to have an annual night out whilst visiting parents so they could provide childcare. Sounds a bit pathetic in retrospect- but I did enjoy those nights and still do; it's become a tradition.

I am not sure MNers are always unsympathetic because they have never experienced the problem: I think it's more that a problem conquered becomes a non-problem; you don't remember how hard it was because what you are feeling is the satisfaction of having coped. People have short memories.

Good luck to you, OP, and I hope you find a solution.