To think lots of MNers don't really know what it's like to raise a child with NO support network?

[notanothernamechangebabes]

I've read a few posts lately (and I do understand the POV of the posters) with people being annoyed by small children being taken to parties/ the hairdresser/ lunches/ weddings etc etc

I'm not arguing that they have a right to be annoyed - of course they do- but lots of the responses seem not to understand that for some people, they are parenting with literally NO day to day support network- family far away, no friends with kids, DP working all hours ... I'm one of them. I'm also breastfeeding and can't express- so can't leave DS with a babysitter at the moment.

I don't dispute that yes, there are some places it would be nice to get a break from kids... but AIBU to think MN could show a bit more compassion for women who have no choice but to cart their kids everywhere- or basically cut themselves off from their old lives, and never go to a pub/ wedding/ hairdresser/ naice restaurant etc again?

(Donning hard hat)

"Instead of posting about it on mumsnet" why?

Don't think mnhq would agree with that!

"Mumsnet makes parents' lives easier by pooling knowledge, advice and support" parents - that means ALL PARENTS that need support not just the worst off! And who gets to decide who is worst off anyway??

Wow, loads of amazing parents on this thread. Hats off to all of you.

I'm super lucky that DH is around most evenings and weekends. I can have time out occasionally. I cannot imagine not having anyone who could tag team in when things are desperate. Sometimes I get a glimpse when DH is away with work or I'm ill during the day, but it's rare that I have absolutely no one to call, even to just vent to.

I do think it's different between activities that are choices to a certain extent (out to a hairdresser, pubs etc) and those that are (at least I find) harder to work around and are necessities. For me, it's taking a baby to my smear test, not being able to have a personal GP chat because I can't pre-book the appointment so childcare would be last minute which DH can't really do without notice. We don't have a local support network to do those little ad hoc childcare needs and I find those are the ones that really get me down, mostly because they are things I need to do for me.

Plus, even if I got a babysitter, DS wouldn't be left. Currently he barely goes to DH! It's obviously only a phase, but it just adds insult to injury to say leave him with someone... who? and how?

For a medical appointment, I think your DP needs to take time off. I'd take a six month old to an appointment if I had a bad cough or for a quick mental health check but not a smear.

When my DD was about this age I started her at the CM three hours a week, I had a few weeks of a couple of hours training and then I used a few other days for a bit of shopping/haircut. For this number of hours it wasn't much.

PS I also have no family nearby and my DH at this age was working M-F over an hour away in a new job with no annual leave yet. He still commutes but can take time off more easily now but we still rely a lot on our CM e.g. when DS had his birthday party and DD was getting over chicken pox, she went to the CM.

YANBU, OP. Toy, you're not coming across well.

I've had smear test with DS on my chest because he was screaming up a storm in the buggy. And had a colposcopy and biopsy with a kind nurse holding the baby.

DP is truly brilliant when he's here. He's freelance, so taking days off on projects can just equal "fuck off then". I'm hoping his current employer is understanding when I go for treatment next month.

I do have a much easier ride than so many of you amazing, survivor, mums. I take my hat off to you.

But if anything, at least this thread has brought out the supportive side of MNers. More of this on other threads would be lovely for the struggling mums out there I'm sure.

I agree DrSpouse. Smear was actually fine, DS was a tiny baby and I checked in advance they were happy to do it with him in the buggy (which they were). Unfortunately it's always a juggle as to when to use DH's annual leave, to try to work around it or ask for time off and use up a precious day or half day. Of course DH also needs to use his time off for his own appointments (he has a chronic condition).

I wouldn't do it with DS now he's a toddler.

CM is out due to a very tight budget. DD went from 9mo and it was brilliant. I took annual leave from work to have time to myself, go to appointments etc (in the golden age of actually being able to book an appointment in advance!). Sadly we really can't afford it with DS as I'm a SAHM, although I am on the countdown until he starts his 15hrs at nursery. That will be a glorious day when I leave him screaming in the classroom as I run out the gates and down the road (straight to the hairdressers/pub/GP or all three)

We don't have a support network but I've managed to take the invited child only to parties, have my hair cut etc easily. We don't go to pubs with the children as they are not places for children and child free weddings we simply said no too.

I expected life to change after children so just adapted to it. You have to be really niave to believe life doesn't alter after children.

Op yanbu, I am lucky that I have a dh but if he took a day off we would loose money which we simply can not afford!
We have no help what so ever as two of our children have sen so can not just call up the local babysitter.
Mum has ms and in a care home, dad is a alcoholic so no chance.
Fil will watch them for no more then ten mins and will moan about that so don't bother asking and mil passed away.
But then I guess as some mn people say it was my choice!
Beacuse yes I knew I was going to have two children with special needs.
I cut my own hair, been out once in 3 years.
But that's life and unfortunately that's the way it has to be.

I do get what your saying but some people don't have a ready made support network they have created one or find other options (mobile hairdresser etc)
You can meet people especially other mums, form a supportive group of mutual helpers, try and get local info on reliable babysitters.
There are a lot of people living too far from family in a new place, with busy or no partner. You just need to grit your teeth and go out to build that network.

Exactly I lovedolly. We moved to a new city when I was pregnant with dd2 and I made a real effort to meet people - 8 years on there are 5 families within minutes walk from our house who would have our kids at the drop of a hat and vice versa. Parents evening one parent looks after all the kids then we tag team. Weekend wedding - no problem. People can be so insular - reach out to your peers in the same boat rather than relying on family.

No family support network here (combination of reasons - distance, elderly and my DM died). My DH works long erratic hours. I adopted someone else's NCT group - completely lucked out with a brilliant group of women and when the babies were old enough one of us would host 4-6 babies with one of the mums to help and the other mums got a couple of hours to themselves. I actually loved hosting because it meant I got to speak to another adult for a few hours

It must be incredibly tough to be raising a family with no support network and I can't imagine many people can understand how hard it is, as it isn't typical.Although if you have a partner, 12 hr days or not, I would still say you had emotional support. Not the same as being a single parent.

It is incredibly tough being a parent and extremely tough if you are doing it alone or with little support from a DH or family. I agree that on MN we could be understanding and show compassion to people in this situation.

I hate to tell you but I find it harder now they are older than I did when they were young. I find dh and I struggle to maintain our relationship as we never have any time together and now the kids are older they go to bed later. They also seem to need a lot more picking up/ dropping off in evenings and weekends too. We can leave the oldest at home for an hour or so, but at 12 I'm not happy leaving them in charge.

We have 0 family to help us out at all. I am very lucky to have DH, I can't imagine how hard it would be as a LP. We do have lots of friends but I never really ask for any childcare help other than an emergency as they all seem to have supportive families so I could never return the favour.

I groan every time we get a party/wedding/dinner invite - one of us will usually go depending on whose 'friend' it mainly is, but it's very rare for us both to go. I've also found as the kids get older more of these things are child-free compared to when the kids were young and events were more family based.

You have my sympathies OP, it is bloody hard

I'm with Winnie the pooer. sp no support network. sen dcs. things haev improved as ex sil is no longer abroad, but still not available unless in dire emergency.

I had to give birth in hospital alone as we had no one to look after other DCs so DH had to stay home with them (his sister decided she couldn't make it). A VBAC after a previous stillbirth. That was pretty nerve wracking.

Also had to cope with being up most of the night with baby twins and then getting older DC to school on time as DH worked away. One of them having SN. My family were never interested nor were DHs and I have so little self esteem that I have found it impossible to make proper friendships since leaving school.

DH had always had to work eves and weekends if he wasn't away.

It is incredibly isolating and wasn't really about having a beauty treatment in peace for me but more about the mental support, just having someone to have a coffee and a moan.

My entire family were so supportive that they disowned me when I had a mental health breakdown (albeit still functioning just) due to a culmination of stuff since childhood. Difficult to trust anyone else to build a support network after that! It's not as simple as 'just get out and meet people and build one'.

Oh come on!! Your dh has been working 7 days a week, 7-7, 12 hours a day?
So you've barely seen him? Almost no relationship then? In which case presumably, neither has your child seen their dad.
How long for? For the last year? 365 days? Without a day off. No. Didn't think so.

And I have had practically no support network, no family nearby. But I just don't agree with the implication. I've managed to do most things, put ds's in gym crèche, get a haircut etc.

Rainbows come on! Yes life changes after children but people's circumstances change without warning too. Bereavement, relationship breakdown, money problems, job loss, illness (inc those children developing/being born with illness/disability)...You can't plan for everything. When I had dd I was married, working, had reason to believe I'd have good family support and support from army - didn't happen!

'Build a network' not always that easy if you're dealing with illness/disability/live in arse end of nowhere! I went to 2 mother and baby groups on the base, both were really unwelcoming. One because it was mainly officers wives and I was a squaddies wife, another was mainly civvy wives and for whatever reason didn't like army wives.

Where I live now is very insular, deprived area no jobs, people don't move TO here they only move away, other mums have lots of family support so aren't particularly looking to make friends. It's where my parents are from but I never grew up here. Nearest city 27 miles away.

"as they all seem to have supportive families so I could never return the favour." This too, plus not often being in a position to help them myself. So it would feel like I was taking the piss.

Also as ladyhelen says if your own family have let you down its really hard to trust others.

I think a lot of people believe that the world is just brimming with support, it's just a question of "putting yourself out there" and finding it. Ergo, if you find yourself in a position where you haven't got support, it is your own fault, as you haven't tried hard enough to make friends and find the support network.

I differ in my view. Culturally, families tend to operate within their own units. People will vehemently deny this for fear of being labelled selfish, but for more cultural and evolutionary reasons it makes sense. A grandparent will look after a child for free allowing their own son or daughter to work full time: how many friends will provide that service? Trivial or ad hoc matters, possibly, but support is more than that.

When your own parents are not around - whether that is through death, them living a long way away, or a poor relationship with them - I think people underestimate how difficult that can be. But another important aspect to this is that if you have experienced your own parents dying young, or have not had brilliant parenting yourself, you are vulnerable with your own children in a way that is both isolating, no matter how much of a support network you do ultimately create for yourself, and quite upsetting, sometimes.

I remember in the early days after my parents died (not together, but sadly I lost them both young) that people were initially very kind and supportive, but that disappeared very quickly and life resumed. I have learned that relying on people for support is a risky business because for the most part, people are tied up with their own lives and their own families and supporting themselves.

I have a friend who grew up in foster care following sexual abuse and I would say she is one of the only people who understands my anxieties about children and lack of support. It opens a can of worms, yet paradoxically a poor childhood yourself makes you more likely to want children, so who knows, really :)

It can all get a little circular and fractious but what I would say is that for the most part, no matter how many friends you make, they will not replace the support loving grandparents would provide, whether they can't be that through death, through their own behaviour or distance - doing it entirely alone is really tough.

Far too generalised..everyones situation is different. Also it is a case of adjusting and adapting. If and when you choose to have children that is part and parcel. We live where childminders don't exist. You can get babysitters but thats it. My 'life' went on hold for about 5 years. I had my hair done when dh could be at home. We had out first evening out when we were staying with family on holiday and went for a walk ! In our home town we went out for dinner for the first time 6 years after dd1 was born. Dd2 was a bad sleeper. We went to events as a family when we could and refused other invitations.. Ones that were too complicated we just diddn't go. Regrets none. Jealous of those with on tap grandparents and an excellent support network yes.

Yeah I have aton of sympathy for anyone in that situation. We have no family support and only friends in the same boat with small kids - we've had to move a good few times for work and you lose all your networks. DH's job is standard 5 days but when the kids were little it was things like getting to the doctor. GP appointments were just about doable (difficult when you have small babies and the appt falls across nap time, as how do you let two babies sleep in your arms at once?) but the worst one was when I slammed my finger in the car door and had to wait 3 days till my DH had a day of annual leave till I could go to minor injuries. There was no way I could entertain two small toddlers for the time it would take to wait and get seen. Maybe they would have bumped me up the list to get us out of everyone's way, I can imagine how popular that would have made me.

those of you saying just build a network of friends its not that easy. i go to bany/toddler groups 5 days a week but i have zero confidence, zero trust, zero self esteem. making friends is pretty impossible right now

Your partner seriously works such long hours they can't look after the baby while you get a haircut? That sounds unlikely.

Really? My DP has his first day off in almost 8 weeks today. His parents have died, my mother is very unwell and despite wanting to take my kids sometimes I feel it's too much for her and my dad who are both exhausted, so I ask that they have them one at a time so they don't get overwhelmed. My brother is dick and would never take them, no other family locally that could take them. Not complaining, I've got a good routine going and DP cuts my hair as I have major anxiety about strangers touching me.
But to say that it's unlikely that someone would work those hours is naive, I know many people who work long hours without days off.
OP, I get it, I know it's hard I really do. I think that, for me, realising what is and isn't possible and working round that is the way to go. Otherwise resentment builds, and it's even harder.