Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

why should house of lords be able to determine our future?

365 replies

dreamingofsun · 07/03/2017 18:32

Could someone explain to me why an unelected group of people (many of whom seem old/senile/out of touch with every day life) determine our terms of leaving the european union - and whether we leave it at all. the british public voted to leave - so why do they think they can alter that? why do they think they can over-rule what the majority of public said?

OP posts:
IAdoreEfteling · 07/03/2017 19:39

Who came up with hard, soft, Brexit?

This distinction has come after the vote - back peddling raising hopes of some half in and half out - worst of all worlds situation.

We voted to Leave The EU.

TheDowagerCuntess · 07/03/2017 19:40

Christ, if only the US had a House of Lords. Or indeed any discernible democratic checks and balances.... 🙄

IAdoreEfteling · 07/03/2017 19:40

I am very happy for Parliament to debate it, what I dont want is TM hand weakened by Parliament stopping her from putting Leaving the SM on the table.

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 19:42

We voted to Leave The EU

Yes. What about the things that we do have? Should we just say fuck it, everything is up for negotiation - or do we have any red lines?

Who gets to decide the red lines?

frillyknickers25 · 07/03/2017 19:42

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. This is parliamentary democracy Leave vote was keen to give more power to as opposed to apparently unelected EU bureaucrats. So you're having it now. I'm not even British and I know this. It baffles me how many people who voted Leave don't get how their own government works. Sort of hilarious and sad all at the same time.

MrsDoylesladder · 07/03/2017 19:44

Comical that this comes as a surprise. You do know the monarch is unelected too?

MaidOfStars · 07/03/2017 19:45

We voted to Leave The EU
Royal 'we' Wink

OK, so that doesn't mean leaving the single market, it doesn't mean leaving the ECHR. Why has it subsequently been decided that it does?

BertrandRussell · 07/03/2017 19:45

I wonder what other things are coming as a surprise to leavers..........

GrouchyKiwi · 07/03/2017 19:51

The level of ignorance about the EU is one reason why this should never have been a referendum question.

endofthelinefinally · 07/03/2017 19:54

One of my dearest friends was a life peer. He did more for this country than anyone I know.
I would trust his judgment far more than a career politician who has never had a proper job tbh.
I agree that the hereditary peers need scrutinising. Nevertheless I think we need a second chamber to look again at some of the awful schemes this government comes up with.

Spudlet · 07/03/2017 20:01
  1. Parliamentary sovereignty, just like the Leavers wanted, is why. You broke it, you bought it. Enjoy!
  1. The Lords are generally extremely intelligent, experienced and interesting people. And are able to scrutinise things in more depth than most MPs can, as they don't have the pressure of a constituency on top of legislative work.
  1. Ageism is not ok.
JellyWitch · 07/03/2017 20:04

I am very much entertained by any leave voters comping about what they voted for!

Thank goodness for the Lords. They give thorough scrutiny to our legislation, bring a wealth of expertise and experience to bear in government and, because they are not facing reelection, are free from much of the short term self interested game playing of the other House.

Crumbs1 · 07/03/2017 20:06

Such sweet irony. "I'm voting out to regain sovereignty". How could they not realise our constitution includes the second chamber - an essential, cross party safeguard for the commons.

Purplepicnic · 07/03/2017 20:08

But how are the government supposed to negotiate the terms of Brexit with the EU if everything they agree has to go through parliament? If parliament vote against the deal, the government go back to the EU and say what? Give us something better? The EU will just shrug - why should they give us a better deal? They have their own pressures, they don't answer to our parliament.

I'm not against it as such, I just don't know how it's going to WORK.

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 20:10

If parliament vote against the deal, the government go back to the EU and say what

Then they will need a deal that Parliament is happy with.

It does come down to who has the ultimate say in running our country.

Reow · 07/03/2017 20:10

Today 19:51 GrouchyKiwi

The level of ignorance about the EU is one reason why this should never have been a referendum question.

Exactly. It's pretty terrifying.

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 20:12

The EU will just shrug - why should they give us a better deal? They have their own pressures, they don't answer to our parliament

It is pressure. It's very complicated. But there are some things that we shouldn't even put on the table for negotiation.

EU workers in this country being one?

And UK workers in Europe being another?

ChasedByBees · 07/03/2017 20:13

I love the Lords. A bunch of smart individuals, most of which with a wealth of experience in various fields, with a capacity to take the long view and not get pushed around by party politics and short term hysteria. I'm incredibly glad they are there, and am terribly grateful for several different Commons insanities they've stopped lately.

Yes this.

OP, perhaps you could try reading something other than the daily mail as a news source. And stop with the ageism, it sounds like you have no idea of the achievements of those in the Lords.

An MP can be elected with no experience of managing government (or anything) and no experience of the issues they are asked to vote on. Why do you think elected is the be and end all? It is not the same as qualified.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 07/03/2017 20:13

Ah those meanies in the house of lords who have so far managed to put paid to a heck of a lot of the benefit cuts that the government are trying to push through
How Hmm that everyone was cheering for them and grateful for them then but now they are a bunch of unelected busybodies.
I despair

NapQueen · 07/03/2017 20:15

the majority of people voted leave

No they didnt. The majority of voters voted leave. Those who didnt vote (couldnt or didnt feel rightfully informed enough) didnt vote leave.

GrouchyKiwi · 07/03/2017 20:15

An MP can be elected with no experience of managing government (or anything) and no experience of the issues they are asked to vote on. Why do you think elected is the be and end all? It is not the same as qualified.
Indeed. There's a pretty great example of elected incompetence often in the news at the moment...

Doobigetta · 07/03/2017 20:15

We voted to Leave The EU

I did not. 16m other people did not. You do not speak for us, T May is not speaking for us, and neither are most of our MPs. I for one am extremely glad that the HoL are, because my future and the future of this country and this continent are actually pretty fucking important to me.

IAdoreEfteling · 07/03/2017 20:16

Frilly, its also thrown up a distinct ignorance of the EU per se, its huge failings on so many fronts, its in ability to act on simple things. The EU is great at some levels on bureaucracy but cannot act these things out eg

" Former Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini got the EU to publish a Charter of Rights for Children back in 2006, after discovering three networks exploiting children in 2004. But 10 years on he believes " nothing has changed, in fact the situation has worsened but Europe has lost its way and does not see this as a priority".

From " How Europe Has Failed Them"

" Bureaucracy and broken promises are to blame for the thousands of children who have gone missing on the EU's watch", Christine Lamb The Times Feb 12th

This ^^ Is one example among many of the EU massive failure, however I do believe Juncker has been working on a free rail card scheme for the lucky children in the EU - more shiny crumbs to distract from massive errors and moral catastrophe.

BanjoStarz · 07/03/2017 20:16

Purplepicnic:

They'll be able to negotiate because of the checks and balances put in place by parliament - as a pp said, we have to have lines somewhere about what will will and won't compromise on - that's what negotiation is about.

The EU parliament will be doing the same thing - it won't just be one person in a room deciding how the uk should leave? They have a democratically elected parliament that will scrutinise the bill also!

It's potentially one of the reasons why no ones left yet - trying to create an agreement that all countries can agree on and ratify in 2 years is impossible imo...which will leave us in the rather uncomfortable position in two years of being out out whether we like it or not...but of a shit creek and paddle situation!

GrouchyKiwi · 07/03/2017 20:18

Article 50 was a slapdash piece of EU legislation that no-one thought would be used. It's nonsensical that both sides are sticking with it.