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AIBU?

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Original poster

why should house of lords be able to determine our future?

365 replies

dreamingofsun · 07/03/2017 18:32

Could someone explain to me why an unelected group of people (many of whom seem old/senile/out of touch with every day life) determine our terms of leaving the european union - and whether we leave it at all. the british public voted to leave - so why do they think they can alter that? why do they think they can over-rule what the majority of public said?

OP posts:
Chippednailvarnishing · 07/03/2017 18:50

The HoL, as I understand it, cannot and has no intention of forcing a Brexit U-turn. They are making recommendations of checks and balances for the process

Agree. They can o my delay the bill so many times, they can't stop it as far as I'm aware.

Original poster
dreamingofsun · 07/03/2017 18:52

some of them appear batty when i see them on the TV and it worries me that they make big decisions. not sure if i think they should be elected, or if there is some other way of ensuring decisions are made by intelligent, aware people

OP posts:
Anon1234567890 · 07/03/2017 18:52

Surely if you voted leave to "take back our sovereignty", this is exactly what you voted for?

The Lords are trying to keep our sovereignty in the EU. We want to hand it back to our elected MPs. That's why the Lords are out of order.

Heathen4Hire · 07/03/2017 18:53

Watching the HoL prog recently I was heartened to discover that most Lords are cross benchers, Lib and Lab. So the Housing Bill the Tory Government tried to put through last year (IMO a very unfair piece of legislation) had a tough time getting through and they sent it back down with a long list of amendments. They are auditors, to my mind. They check the crappy shit sent up by Government and make sure it's good enough. Fair enough, I say?

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 18:53

Blocked by the Lords

I thought that ultimately the Commons had control. There is an Act that means the Commons can overrule the Lords. Rarely used though.

www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/parliamentacts/

Ele13 · 07/03/2017 18:53

Things can be passed without lords approval if the gov can get them through the lower house three times, I believe.

I too think hol acts as an important check - not so much due to their unelected status, but rather because they are their long term, so think more than one parliamentary term ahead.

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 18:54

some of them appear batty when i see them on the TV

TBH - many MPs have lost all sense of moral conscience and only vote with the whips.

NannyOggsKnickers · 07/03/2017 18:55

The House of Lords acts as a series of checks and balances against the government of the day. Often ensuring that bills have been throughly debated and thought through. The benefits of being unelected is that they are often more prepared to do the moral rather than the political thing. Lords are more likely to rebel against their party whip.

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 18:56

not sure if i think they should be elected, or if there is some other way of ensuring decisions are made by intelligent, aware people

Most democracies have an elected Upper Chamber. We are unusual in having the Lords and an unelected Monarch.

titchy · 07/03/2017 18:57

To be fair the senile batty ones (and there aren't many now) don't actually turn up to debate and vote....

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 18:58

Lords are more likely to rebel against their party whip

Indeed. The threat of the whip and being deselected keeps people on side. Unless you're Corbyn who went against the whip many times but then demanded his MPs followed the whip recently on the Brexit vote.

Reow · 07/03/2017 18:58

It worries you they THEY make big decisions??? Ha!

Thank fuck for parliamentary democracy. Let's hope this nightmare isn't going to actually go ahead. If they can't put a stop to it then the misguided ignorant leave voters will find out what they actually voted for.

BertrandRussell · 07/03/2017 19:01

"Could someone explain to me why an unelected group of people (many of whom seem old/senile/out of touch with every day life) determine our terms of leaving the european union - and whether we leave it at all. the british public voted to leave - so why do they think they can alter that? why do they think they can over-rule what the majority of public said?"

Because that's the way our parliamentary system works. And has done for quite a while. Did you not realize that when you voted for us to leave the wholly elected European Parliament?

Megatherium · 07/03/2017 19:02

The referendum didn't give the government carte blanche to leave on any terms and on any basis without subjecting the whole process to proper scrutiny. People who believe that have seriously allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the more hysterical elements of UKIP and the right-wing press.

pointythings · 07/03/2017 19:02

The lords aren't trying to stop Brexit. They're just trying to make it so that we have smart, sensible Brexit, not leap off a cliff edge dumb Brexit. I hope they succeed.

BertrandRussell · 07/03/2017 19:03

"some of them appear batty when i see them on the TV "

Really? Which ones?

IAdoreEfteling · 07/03/2017 19:03

We did know what we were voting for and it was a vote to Leave the disaster that is called the European Union!

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 19:03

Brexit is going ahead. But I think it's important for Parliament to debate and discuss the type of Brexit instead of the UNELECTED PRIME MINISTER forcing her view of Brexit view.

Maybe our ELECTED representatives should have a debate in Parliament about it and discuss the type of Brexit, with amendments as well.

I assume the op would like our ELECTED representatives to discuss the type of Brexit we have?

Megatherium · 07/03/2017 19:03

If you want to see true battiness, consider what the likes of Nuttall and Farage get up to. The Lords would have to go some to beat that.

Owlzes · 07/03/2017 19:04

I love the Lords. A bunch of smart individuals, most of which with a wealth of experience in various fields, with a capacity to take the long view and not get pushed around by party politics and short term hysteria. I'm incredibly glad they are there, and am terribly grateful for several different Commons insanities they've stopped lately.

I just wish it was the Opposition doing its job instead of the Lords.

As for can they? Well, yes. That is the parliamentary democracy we live under. If you'd like to reform the second chamber, that's another campaign. But I thought Leavers were dead keen on British parliamentary sovereignty?

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 19:04

We did know what we were voting for and it was a vote to Leave the disaster that is called the European Union

Who gets to decide the type of Brexit and the terms we leave on? Our UNELECTED Prime Minister or Parliament?

MrsJayy · 07/03/2017 19:06

Im really glad HoL has sat up and said oh wait a minute and questioning Government that is what they are meant to do.

EdithWeston · 07/03/2017 19:06

The average age of members of the Lords is 69 (range 38 - 98)

And UK sn'r remotelt weird in being a monarchy. One third of countries are.

neonrainbow · 07/03/2017 19:07

The amount of casual ageism is pretty disgusting on this thread.

amispartacus · 07/03/2017 19:07

oh wait a minute and questioning Government that is what they are meant to do

This. Considering most of our media is pro full Brexit, hard Brexit and the Labour party is dead in the water on this, it's nice to see some people in power speaking up and holding the Government to account.

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