why should house of lords be able to determine our future?

[dreamingofsun]

Could someone explain to me why an unelected group of people (many of whom seem old/senile/out of touch with every day life) determine our terms of leaving the european union - and whether we leave it at all. the british public voted to leave - so why do they think they can alter that? why do they think they can over-rule what the majority of public said?

What comes first to an MP?

The views of their constituents or the views of the Prime Minister?

The House of Lords should vote to determine our future because they are part of the UK Parliament. This is the sovereignty we always had, this is how it works.

The outcome of a non-binding advisory referendum does not mean that the PM of the day is allowed to completely disregard Parliamentary process and UK law.

What comes first to an MP? The views of their constituents or the views of the Prime Minister

Tory MPs go with there are constituents who want WHAT? the views of their financial advisors.

What comes first to an MP? The views of their constituents or the views of the Prime Minister?

In this case its irrelevant because the majority of constituents voted to leave the EU.

Sadly Brexit will happen (fuckwits) but checks and balances for the legislation to ensure UK gets the best deal it can Have to go ahead. I quite enjoy seeing the HoL getting one over this pathetic shower who "govern" us. Austerity is an ideology and Brexit was about immigrants nothing more nothing less.

Presumably the Parliament Act could be used to ensure the bill goes through, and the government has the prerogative of ignoring the Lords anyway.

Presumably the Parliament Act could be used to ensure the bill goes through

Which takes a few years. What will our country be like if it takes us another 2 years before we trigger A50.

Brexit was about immigrants nothing more nothing less. Afraid not; it was about getting out of the EU as it had been obvious for some time that any meaningful reform wasn't on the cards. The whole thing is pork barrel politics and quite frankly is unnecessary. Lots of the planet manages to exist and be successful without being in the EU.

We are furthermore, not becoming isolationist, by leaving the EU, we are expanding our horizons. We are not withdrawing from NATO, giving up our seat on the UN Security Council, or withdrawing from the G7/8/20 etc. We are leaving one club whose terms of membership and fees some of us have decided are not what we want.

I disagree scary, whilst the EU has some negative points we will not get a better economic deal any where else. If the govt think that the US will really give us a decent trade deal then they are as deluded as I thought they were. have to accept that 52% voted to leave but also 48% voted to stay and yet we are ignored there is no compromise or concessions for us! Prices will rise, farmers won't get workers xenophobia will rise and I need to move away from the keyboard!

Given that the vote was to leave, what concessions or compromise were you expecting? Had remain won, what compromises or concessions would have been offered for leavers?

I think the EU has far more than a few negative points, and as a vote to remain was a leap into the unknown, (as we were not voting for a status quo, given the further enlargement coming down the track, the increasing effect of the acquis and the ratchet, and the move to QMV), especially given the slow burning fuse that may yet ignite under the Italian banks, and that Greece may soon decide they've had enough, I could see no reason to vote remain.

Yes the majority of Britain DID vote to leave the EU.

The people who didn't vote are irrelevant/non existent, because they couldn't be arsed to vote. The 33.5 mil who DID vote are the ones that matter. The rest can fuck off! They have NO RIGHT TO AN OPINION.

Hopefully these demented and dopey lords are ignored and Theresa May gets on with the job in hand and pulls us out of the EU SOON.

Hopefully that will shut up the whiney remoaners.

The 'demented and dopey lords' are as much a part of the UK Parliament as Theresa May is. It is not their role to rubber-stamp bills put out by the PM, they are part of the process of debate.

Funny how all those people who wanted their sovereignty back (the sovereignty that we always had) don't like it so much when it works against their demands.

No matter how loudly the quitters shout, it remains the case that the referendum was a non-binding advisory vote- there is no compulsion on the government to push Brexit through, they are doing it because they choose to.

The only social groups that voted in majority for remain were the wealthy ABs. These are the people who benefit most from the EU.

We've run into a problem because now it's running up against the Lords, the courts, people who can afford to bring litigation etc. And these tend to be populated by the wealthy ABs who benefit from the EU and want to remain.

So we're in a position where the wealthy are using their privileged position to block the expressed wishes of the majority of the poorer lower middle and working classes.

And people who claim to be left wing think this is great.

Define benefitted most? Not sure it was the ABs who did the booze cruises. Not sure its the ABs on the cheap flights to/from Glasgow with bags full of cheap booze. No more cheap booze outside the customs union.

ABs can afford to buy their kids decent toys. Who is going to make sure that toys are safe for everyone else? What will be the CE mark replacement to show toys are safe.

ABs are better educated so are not exploited by forced working hours. Who will decide maximum working hours now for exploited workforces? Not the neoliberals who are in charge of their regulation free playground.

Workers making protected regional products are not ABs. Who will lay down rules that protects their jobs from international competitors when we dont have international agreements?

ABs can afford maternity leave. Who will help guarantee the rights of pregnant women to maternity leave. Current annual leave minimum is based on EU law. Soon will be back to unpaid leave.

ABs tend to work in safe professions. Who is going to demand health and safety laws are up to realistic standards now?

We are now in a position where the ABs wont be affected and so many more will be.

scottishdiem
Middle class professionals will be less affected.
Sadly, some people are like turkeys voting for their own christmas.

Like the Tories actually care about jobs or anything. E.g. help to buy hasn't brought affordable housing, it's just letting people borrow money so they can line the pockets of big housing developers, they talk of benefits scroungers but most people on benefits are actually for in work people and are topping up crap wages paid by big companies who are paying themselves loads. They are telling people who are chronically ill that they are fit to work. They are cutting school funding and charging rates to state schools that private schools are exempt. At the moment they blame immigrants and the EU but they're also considering opening the NHS up to US healthcare. Give it a few years and they'll be blamimg the poor for their situation remember it wont be their mates problem for zero hours contracts and low pay

Anyone who actually thought a bunch of neoliberal tories and right wingers care aboit anything than their own career and financial self interest is deluded.

Without the House of Lords we'd be in a horrendous mess sad but true.
They do manage to oppose some utterly stupid and on a whim proposals more often than we know.
So in some ways we are lucky they still exist as for sure lots of MPs would love to see them go leaving the playing field wide open to there often thick and stupid ideas.

I see the OP, realising they know sweet FA about politics, has disappeared.

Hopefully to inform themselves about how our country actually works from a more reliable source than the tabloid press.

And to all posters that blame one political party or another look at it truthfully there all as bad as each other. All in it to line there pockets set themselves up nicely on boards and influence decisions that help there cronies and line there pockets for there futures,dosent matter if say labour,conservative or any other very very few are different

The will of the British "people". Not only am I apparently no longer a person, I also have to pay noticeably more for food, on the same crap wage. Am loving this first benefit of being about to leave the EU. Yay!

Would those of you who are up in arms about this decision like to explain something to me?

The European parliament will get a say on the Brexit deal.

Why on earth should the British parliament not get a say?

Yes there are British MEPS in the European parliament but their influence is diluted by being a grouping out of 28 - presumably why a lot of you voted to leave anyway - and their priorities are probably a bit different to British MPs.

It is right that the British parliament gets to decide if the deal is acceptable.

(might be worth finding out if Art 50 is revocable before we start this process though - because if it isn't, and the Treaty doesn't say it is, whether or not the British parliament gets a say is irrelevant as it will be take it or leave it, so it will leave it).

The Lords often talk a lot more sense than the Commons do.

The people who didn't vote are irrelevant/non existent, because they couldn't be arsed to vote. The 33.5 mil who DID vote are the ones that matter. The rest can fuck off! They have NO RIGHT TO AN OPINION.

Even if we exclude those who weren't allowed to vote or were unable to...how do you prove who voted and is therefore entitled to an opinion?

I would quite like a badge...ds1 had a sticker on his phone (too young to vote)

In this case its irrelevant because the majority of constituents voted to leave the EU

That's not true. IF you are an MP in a constituency that voted REMAIN, then the people who voted you as their representative supported Remain.

So should you represent their views? If you don't represent their views - or feel that you can't represent their views, maybe you should consider your position?

(I'm using you to refer to the local MP)

So we're in a position where the wealthy are using their privileged position to block the expressed wishes of the majority of the poorer lower middle and working classes

We are still leaving the EU. So that decision has NOT been blocked.

Lots of the planet manages to exist and be successful without being in the EU

Lots of the larger economies seem to want to exist in trade relationships and trading areas. Trump of course wants to take the US out of such trading areas.

NAFTA
Trans - Pacific partnership
This is a list of different areas at the moment

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_bloc

"The only social groups that voted in majority for remain were the wealthy ABs. These are the people who benefit most from the EU."

Really? In what way do ABs benefit most from the EU?