To not understand why other people are obsessed with 'thinking positive'?

[MargaretCavendish]

As one of life's natural pessimists, I feel like the world is obsessed with 'the power of positive thinking' and 'keeping your hopes up', and I feel like I've just fundamentally missed something - what's so great about getting your hopes up?

To get this out of the way - yes, there's context. I'm almost certainly currently having a very early loss in a much wanted pregnancy. I saw the GP today and she agreed that this was almost certainly what was happening, but then added 'but we can't be sure so try and think positive!'. How could it be possibly be helpful for me to 'think positive'? Surely the quicker I accept this the quicker I'm over it? (This isn't a criticism of the GP, by the way, who was generally lovely) (Oh and also - this isn't a plea for sympathy about my chemical pregnancy! Flowers neither needed or expected!)

But, anyway, more generally: I feel like my approach - expect the worst, be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen - is just sound sense. I can completely see how being such a pessimist that you can't enjoy good things happening is bad, but I'm not like that. To be honest, I feel like I know more than one person who has made terrible life choices by being over-optimistic - bought houses they couldn't afford on the vague hope that their financial situation would improve, taken wild leaps of faith in their career that didn't work out, stuck in a bad relationship due to an unshakeable belief that their partner would change soon. Yet, the world still seems to be really wedded to the idea that optimism is the key to success and happiness. AIBU to be Team Glass Half Empty and proud?

so sorry you are going through all that - life chucks stuff at you sometimes and a wallow in self pity is sometimes just what is needed to get over it.

I hate the be positive brigade.... on one occasion I did respond - "no, no I will not and you cannot make me!"

glass half full/half empty pahhhhh... a glass is refillable!

Going through IVF must be soul destroying for anyone - have known a few people who it worked for, but only after months and years of differing procedures and problems. Must be so hard.

Fuck and cunt are my favourite words at the moment lol

debska, yep , i bet they are.
your every right to be angry and upset about things. I hope you have lots of support in real life and not all the 'positive brigade' either.

I'm not permanently raging as things are going well but if one more fucker tells me how they know it will be ok etc etc I will do some damage lol

And Margaret... it is a shit situation for you and your feelings are your feelings. You are entitled to feel like crap and not put on a happy performance for anyone

I think our society idolises positivity to the extent that it is harmful.

I think a better thing to say than "be positive" is "be brave".

Shit really dies happen to people and if it does we need to be able to get through it without giving up. By "giving up" I mean falling into a spiral of despair and catastrophising. For me that means being as brave as I can. Thinking about what the worst is that can happen and deciding that if it does happen, I will be as brave as I can and deal with what comes my way in the best way I can , at the same time I will hope that the worst does not happen.

I think that positivity is often another word for denial. I was so often being told to stay positive during my DF's final illness and it irritated me beyond belief, because I could see how he was and I knew that his body was crumbling. Positivity was more about others than about me, about putting on a mask so that they could feel more comfortable, and (perhaps selfishly) I didn't see why I should take responsibility for that.

I think it's healthy to allow yourself to feel sad and down and to consider what to do if the worst should happen.

I think it's healthy to allow yourself to feel sad and down and to consider what to do if the worst should happen.

My understanding of positivity is different than most on this thread and I will consider how I communicate/label my philosophy in future.

To me, this is positive. Embracing all emotions without judgement. Making plans for different scenarios but not assuming that the worst will be the outcome.

The problem is that negativity can lead to giving up, then you have no chance. Positivity means you at least have a chance a achieving your goals.

I think I'm very into acceptance too. This has all given me a lot of food for my thoughts. And I apologise if I've upset anyone by sharing my opinions in quite a sensitive area.

I've been really busy all afternoon and it's been genuinely lovely to drop into these thread and see all these people agreeing that you can react healthily and appropriately without 'staying positive'!

I'm so sorry for those of you who have had losses, many of which have been considerably more serious than mine. In particular, BipBippa - I'm so sorry for what you've been through. I'd like to say I'm astonished that anyone would say something as trite as 'think positive' after a loss as devastating as your stillbirth, but unfortunately it saddens but doesn't shock me.

I've had some shit times over the years. I've also had some amazing ones. I try to focus on my luck to have had experienced the good and not beat myself up over the bad.

Concentrating on I am lucky because xyz helps me to cope.

There was a line I heard the other day 'There will be better days than this.' I quite like that one.

Yes great line... Heard it on Call the Midwife.

www.thebookoflife.org/on-pessimism/

A good read and video on the positives of pessimism here. I hate positive thinking. I am quite content in my pessimism. It stops me taking the good things in life for granted.

I am with Opal in that I think you can choose your reactions to events (and yes, I've had bad things happen). Bad things happen in life (to everyone IMO) and future worry is not the best use of my time for me - why spend time debating something that hasn't happened yet and may never happen?

I don't expect a stress-free life 100 per cent of the time, I just don't spend time imagining things going wrong. If they do, I deal with it at the time.

You are in control of your destiny......what total bullshit

Thanks, OP.

I think people are confusing 'not thinking positively' with 'worrying'. You can confront and accept difficulty without 'worrying'; you can prepare and plan for a variety of outcomes without 'worrying'. I think a lot of people find the process of looking at worst case scenarios and working through them to be helpful and calming.

I also don't agree that you can choose your reactions to everything. Or rather, you can choose, but depending on the circumstances, the choices available to you may be very restricted. To take an extreme example, if you've been held captive in a dungeon and tortured by a maniac throughout your formative years, you probably don't have a choice in whether or not you 'react' to this situation by being traumatised; to claim that it should be possible for someone to choose to react with a sunny disposition, total trust in one's fellow man, and the blessed serenity of forgiveness is a fairly grandiose and compassionless attitude, IMO.

It just adds to the alienation of people who've had enormously damaging experiences, by making them feel that a better person than they've turned out to be could have chosen to be happy, no matter what.

I haven't RTT so please forgive me if the conversation has moved on hugely.

I tried to commit suicide about four weeks ago. I suffer from bipolar disorder and have had depressive episodes for a while. Add to that the impending death of two close family members, work stresses, and a potential pregnancy not working out as I had hoped, and I just spiraled.

I won't go into the details of what I tried to do. It wasn't competent (hence my still being here but it was sincere). I felt like I'd just run out of steam.

Having said all that, I'm a massive believer in trying to reprogram the brain to be positive. Right now, I wake up most mornings feeling like death. I still make myself get out of bed, and I go upstairs and I write down three things in the world that are good and positive and wonderful and which no one can take away from me.

Some mornings it's something very simple and physical - I have eggs in the fridge. I can cook those eggs. They will be cooked just the way I like them and will taste good. Sometimes it's big things - I read the letter my mother wrote me just before she died and I remind myself that she loved me and I love her. My fiance has given me a message in a bottle as well - a little love note I can take out and look. I read that and I remember he loves me and that is enough to get through the next 24 hours with.

I know it's hard. I'm so sorry for everyone hurting right now, but the listing positive things every day has honestly kept me alive. It's not for everyone, but it's got me through several really dark depressive places. I read somewhere once that listing positive things in the world or in your life, every single day, and focusing on them, can get you into better thought patterns. In the long run, I hope, desperately, it will do that for me. It hasn't worked, exactly, yet, but it sure as hell keeps me hanging in there and I think saying 'yeah, the world just sucks' wouldn't have managed that.

Not for everyone, but I think it has a place and function.

I lurk a lot on here and sometimes join in on the infertility boards after 5 years of unsuccessfully Ttc. What I find interesting is that I am often a lone voice saying 'well, maybe you won't ever have a child, but you can still have a good life,and planning for this can be useful' or words to that effect and I'm usually completely ignored. It's always 'oh but I'm sure you'll have one eventually.' It seems a shame as a lot of the time I think people are terrified of not having a child and, as someone who tried and failed and who won't ever have one, I don't think it's healthy to tell people that 'I'm sure you will.' How? When science says no? Isn't it better to confront the fear and come to face a different - and I say not inferior - life?

But like I said I'm usually ignored, because I'm not being 'positive' enough....

Sorry for your loss OP and PPs. Life is shit sometimes. we are thinking of you.

(Back to lurking. As you were.)

Owles we were both typing at the same time so I don't want you to think I had read and ignored your post. Wishing you well, and good things in every day, no matter how small.

Lurking you may be the lone voice but it's an important one! The endless positivity just used to make me feel so much more hollow & alone. Some lovely people on the infertility boards - the non-relentlessly-positive threads are what kept me sane through very dark times.

Owlzes so sorry for your losses and for the way you're feeling - I'm really glad that you've got something to hold on to that feels helpful.

I agree that "be positive, it will happen" is useless in the context of infertility. The whole reason infertility is so hard is because there's a significant chance that actually, it won't ever happen. Some of the most negative people become pregnant at the drop of a hat, and vice versa.

well, maybe you won't ever have a child, but you can still have a good life

I'm sure you mean to be helpful, but for me, that would have seemed just as much in the "positive thinking" style as "everything happens for a reason" etc. I'd have taken it to mean "Don't complain, be positive about the childless future you may have. Act like you aren't bothered either way whether you have a family".

So sorry for what you're going through OP

I went through multiple mcs, all of which were very wanted pregnancies, 'think positive' would have felt hurtful and ridiculously trite if someone had suggested it during any of them. It sucked. It massively sucked, it felt bitterly unfair, it was shattering every single time.

I became disabled over a decade ago now, and there are the very rare good days, the more frequent ok days, the probably equally frequent not good days, and the occasional absolutely bloody awful days. Really annoyingly, getting stressed, angry, upset, resentful, all of that makes me flare so badly that I've had to work actively on learning to chill out and think more positively. Training myself to calmer, more peaceful, more relaxed ways of thinking and being (I was a typical A personality, relaxed didn't happen much.) Being around calm and positive people helps, collecting pictures of positive and calming things, music, dvds, books for bad days helps, taking care of myself and intentionally doing things I find calming and lift my mood help. and I met some lovely people when ttc and on support boards from others with chronic illness and disability who helped a lot with new and different and longer term perspectives who could say, yep, been there, this too will pass. I do try. However on a bad day, I still sometimes just want to rip life's head off and spit down its neck.

Sometimes it's been about hanging on, getting through this moment, this hour, this day, this week as gently as possible, knowing it will feel better than it does right now.

So sorry to read some of these stories my heart goes out to you all! I'm a real believer in paying it forward and positivity and I've had some amazing opportunities because of that. Doesn't mean I dont feel down sometimes but I'll always try to see something good in everything and everyone. Something fantastic happened to me yesterday and I'm sure it's in the way I think. You might say it's a crock of s**t but I believe it so that's all that matters. I feel for you op, I hope you are ok xxx

Yes that was it Plymouth! Just couldn't remember but I do now.

Sorry owles you are obviously going though a lot at the mo, thinking of you. I hope the focus on the positive helps you.

To me telling someone to think positive is like telling them to believe in god.

Because of the psychology of positivity it can't be faked. It's a gift, not a judgement.

These extreme cases, I don't know. But I know for a long time I felt very muddled with the shadows of my past, and this has helped me swing the pendulum.

If you believe your current strategy is the best strategy it doesn't worry you how others behave. It most definitely doesn't anger you.

The insults about my comment about destiny. I'm happy to consider them, but I'm not smug. I'm relieved. I spent years in pain after I the actual pain was over. I'm so relieved to have escaped the final torture of my brain using it to colour all aspects of my life.