WWYD - sibling feels entitled to DPs time

[hatchbackofnotredame]

NC for this, but regular.

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible, but don't want to dripfeed so a bit of background is needed.

Sister is childless, recently bought her first house with her longterm partner, having lived at home to that point. She has mild anxiety and depression, but both she and her partner hold down well-paid graduate jobs. Despite owning her own home (which is beautiful) for 2 years, she still lives with my parents at weekends, including taking her washing there for them to do. She also spends all her annual leave there (she has literally never had a holiday elsewhere). She is 37.

Recently, due to a scheduling conflict, my parents pulled out of an arrangement to see Dsis and her partner for a week of annual leave. They didn't communicate this well to Dsis, and left it to the last minute to tell her, which was understandably upsetting for her.

However, Dsis is now refusing to speak to, or contact, our parents and says she feels that they have shown her "disrespect". (While I feel that they could have given her more notice, I disagree that they intended to show a lack of respect by it). She is accusing them of deliberately depriving her of any possibility of having a nice week off, because she can't possibly take time off in her own home with her partner and still enjoy it. Therefore, they have "ruined" her holiday and she can't forgive them for depriving her of "precious downtime".

What concerns me most is that she takes the position, and I quote, that our parents' refusal to have her over for the week means that they are "in dictating mode and there is very little that is less helpful that people telling you they know what you need better than you yourself do". In other words, she TOLD my parents she needed a week off with them, and they dared to suggest they had other things to do and that she really should get more used to spending annual leave with her partner alone. My sister thinks this is absolutely outrageous and that they owe her a nice time on her week off. There is no room her for my parents to have their own independent desires.

Important bit of context: my position to date has been to stand clear of this relationship and to let them all get on with it. I have, however, become quite concerned about things since my DM has significant MH issues and there have been hints that these are being (unwittingly or deliberately) exploited. In particular, my mother finds it very hard to say "no" (due to an abusive childhood) by herself, so it's incredibly difficult for her to set boundaries. What happens repeatedly is that my sister insists that there is a medical reason for her to get what she wants: she must have their company on a certain date because of her anxiety, they must do her washing because of her depression etc. Now it has become that my mother is "damaging her" by denying her the opportunity to have the annual leave she wants. My Mum has said explicitly she doesn't want to do these things like extra washing (she and my Dad are in their late 60s and both are cancer survivors), but she feels guilted into them.

I just don't know what to do. Part of me thinks I should continue to stay out of this as a toxic situation that is between them. Another part desperately wants to support and protect my parents, because I feel this is now reaching a point of entitlement/potential exploitation where it is becoming almost a mild form of abuse. WWYD?

No advice but wanted to pointlessly add what an utter horror she sounds. I don't know what you're supposed to do with someone so utterly up their own backside as she clearly is.
Incredible.

OP could some of this be about avoiding her partner?
I have come across a situation where a woman in her 20s had to be virtually chucked out of her parental home. Therapy showed up that she didn't want to leave the childhood home. I wonder if your sister took on a partner for the sake of appearances - as a long term spinster I can confirm that people have a lot of odd opinions about spinsterhood - but always intended to just cling to being a child and never planned to spend time with a partner?

She clearly needs therapy but I can see that this must be a really tough situation for all of you. The woman in her 20s, she also created a lot of drama. In the end her parents had to say "the more drama you create, the less we will keep in touch". It was hard but last I heard, she was turning into an adult and things were going okay.

What happens when your parents need or want to downsize, or need more care than they can get at home? They're at the stage where they should be enjoying their retirement - they have, to put it mildly, done their bit and then some. I'd be giving them brochures for one-bed retirement flats and telling them to book a three month cruise if I were you.

It's long overdue that she stands on her own two feet and everyone realises that the world doesn't revolve around her, it never did, and frankly if she was your husband rather than your sister you'd be listening a chorus of LTB because you could make a good case for her being emotionally abusive. It sounds as if she's ground your parents down, and that's what abusers do, drip drip drip, like water on stone. She has beaten them into submission, and what's worst is that she thinks she's entitled to.

If she goes nuclear she goes nuclear. And then what? What's she going to do once her top is blown and she's got nothing else in the arsenal. She only has power because she's been given it. What's she going to do, really? She can't throw them out. She doesn't actually hold any of the cards other than having the ability to be unpleasant. She doesn't sound like she brings them much in the way of joy. She doesn't have grandchildren to dangle out of reach.

She only has the power that you give her. Keep repeating.

So if she goes off on one, she goes off on one. You let her rant and then you say "Finished? Good. Keep it that way or we're changing the locks."

'Maggiethecat' has it spot on.
Wise words Maggie.!

I can't think of a diplomatic way to phrase this, I'm so sorry - but what would worry me would be whether the DP would downplay or hide any health concerns, for fear of triggering anxiety or stress in your sister. It sounds like a hellishly stressful situation for them and as cancer survivors in their 60s, the emphasis should be on enjoying a peaceful and healthy retirement, not trying to contain a situation like this. What would your DSis do if one of them were to have a recurrence (sorry)? Or required medical treatment that made it impossible for her to land on them at weekends? Is she prepared to step in and help them as they grow older?

The three month cruise a good idea.

Thank you all for the advice.

My Mum has some MH issues (quite bad depression/anxiety), so travelling is really hard for her, and not something she enjoys.

maggie - you are spot on. One thing that I've noticed since things blew up between DP and my sister is that she is MUCH better when my sister isn't around. She goes out for walks, her MH stabilises and she lives her life more fully. My DM got her cancer diagnosis literally the day after my DF retired from work, and after 2 years of hellish treatment and an all-clear that was the biggest relief ever, that they were looking after my sister. They've NEVER had a chance to enjoy their retirement. Their life is just a series of duties that are imposed on them by her. They used to get her breakfast, do her washing, cook her dinner, and look after a menagerie of animals she introduced into the home. It is just drudgery.

To add insult to injury, my sister just dumps a load of work stress on her normally - she can rant for literally hour after hour about her job. So it's not just a physical burden - it's an emotional one. She's like a vampire who is draining them dry. Since they had this row, it is visibly obvious how much better DM is on a daily basis.

I have raised this with my sister in the past, to try to open her eyes to the damage her choices are having, but she just denies that it's true and says I am 'interfering'. I honestly think she really is that selfishly caught up with her own needs that she can't see those of others.

Alice - her DP is really passive; a sweet, gentle guy who wouldn't say boo to a goose. I think they get along fine, I can't imagine him ever standing up to her really. I think she's avoiding adult responsibility, but not him personally.

Sounds like your sister is too narcissistic to ever reflect on her own behaviour or admit any fault at all. I think you'll have to take the tact of supporting your parents in standing up to her. Would it be easier for your dad to deal with saying no to her rather than your mum? This rift might be a blessing as they've already broken the dynamics somewhat. If they can stand their ground with her this time they can then lay down some strict ground rules (e.g. no bring washing round, no staying for long periods of time when she has her own place etc.). I would give them as much encouragement as possible in this. Sounds like they've become so brow beaten by her they probably don't even appreciate how unreasonable she was being.

I wonder how she's perceived at work?

The fact she's in a well paid, responsible job leads me to think she's well able to control herself - when she chooses to.

I'm aghast at what a monster she is.

I've never said this before but - email her a link to this thread!

YOU ARE A MONSTER!! 😡😡😡

"" I looked through the NHS list, and she might be closer to something like dependent personality disorder? ""

It's difficult to look at this objectively, but has there been a level of imposed learned helplessness, by your Mum, because of her own issues.

Or ongoing guilt?

I think to solve this properly, there'd have to be an honest and open family discussion and an admittance of the part that everyone has played.

That rarely happens, though.

You'd have to start with your Mum and Dad and ask their permission to get involved.

Then start on your Sister, on their behalf.

Just to add, even people with extreme learned helplessness, often manage at work. It's only around the source do they revert.

There are occasions on MN when I really, really wish that the subject of the thread would accidentally stumble upon it and recognise themselves, and by God is this one of them. What a selfish, manipulative controlling narcissistic parasite she sounds.

Does she actually have any friends outside of work and her partner? I am struggling to imagine that she is liked by anyone.

People can also have a combination of personality traits, not necessarily enough for a diagnosis of a specific PD and people can also have a diagnosis of more than 1 personality disorder to.

If the monster in question did find the thread though ime she'd go ballistic about being victimised and how nobody understands the complexity of her MH issues. Yes, my family member who is like this had my dad lifting heavy furniture shortly after a massive heart attack he barely survived. I think she regards my parents as her property, not people as such.

There are occasions on MN when I really, really wish that the subject of the thread would accidentally stumble upon it and recognise themselves

Sadly Lavender, I don't think they would. They would be agreeing with everyone else that the behaviour was totally unacceptable, without ever relating it to themselves and the way they behave at all.

There are none so blind . . .

Ha, yes you are probably right Happy!

She doesn't actually hold any of the cards other than having the ability to be unpleasant.
Yes!

It sounds very much as though speaking to your sister would be a waste of time.

You would be better off speaking to your parents about what they want to do. And undermining the previous arrangement as much as possible while your sister is still sulking. Invite them to do things with you at the weekend. Go round to see them. Suggest they book a holiday. Suggest they get your sister's things delivered to her at her house, given she is now not in contact and so unable/unwilling to access them. Just embrace this as the new normal as much as possible.

The fact she's in a well paid, responsible job leads me to think she's well able to control herself - when she chooses to.

Where my sister comes in at least she's often perceived very well at work despite the fact that nearly all of her relationships/friendships end up being against her in the end.

I think this is because her power works on an insidious subtle level. Outwardly she's fun and able, your best buddy, you'd never guess. But slowly she will turn the screw. Those who have put up with her for years are very conditioned by her behaviour and don't see it for what it is. It takes an event of some kind to lift the veil. Only the oldest of friendships and my DPs remain in her life when those happen. I did for a long while until she went too far.

I have a sister like this. Apart from a few details, I could have sworn it was her writing it as a reverse.

Anyway. DSIS just seems to really like being cared for. She likes having our parents look after her and do things for her. She goes on holiday with them and spends weekends at their house. She demands their attention and has tantrums when they help me out. My dad helped me and DH tile our kitchen and DSIS demanded he and mum cut the visit (and therefore tiling) short so they could pick her up to go to their house for the day. Thankfully i could finish off some of the work but dad had to come back and finish some difficult cutting in (i realise this makes me sound incapable but DH and i had cocked up and really needed help from someone who know what they were doing )

She is incapable of looking beyond herself.

Any time I suggest she gets a grip and grows up she throws a tantrum and forces our parents to intervene. Any time they tell her to stand on her own two feet a bit she throws a tantrum which (conveniently) turns into a medical issue and causes massive guilt for my parents because she tells them they MADE it happen.

I don't have any advice. I just ignore her when she goes down the self pity route and talk about something else. My parents feel like they have to support her as she is on her own. I dread to think what will happen as they get older.

It leaves me feeling slightly alone from the family. She has claimed all time with our parents either in person or by discussion if she isn't there. I feel like I can't ask my parents for help - the tiling was a last resort and had been offered by dad before I asked. I do have some help with childcare but feel it encroaches on my parents free time so it is limited to the odd evening babysitting and one or two days in school holidays so far. They offer in holidays as they want to see the kids but I don't like to ask regularly as it's not their role to provide childcare.

I don't have an adult relationship with DSIS and I don't think she has an adult relationship with anyone else tbh. She hasn't had a partner in at least 10 years.

I wish I could help but she refuses any (perceived) intrusion into her life and has pushed me away. I support my parents as best I can.

Good luck hatchback

That sounds very hard to deal with Hashi. I've come across people like that myself so I know how manipulative they can be.

I think your sister is treating your parents very badly, she is like a spoilt child- having a temper tantrum if she doesn't get her own way or if she is challenged. She attempts to manipulate by refusing contact with anyone who questions her behaviour.

I understand the impact of trying to discuss things with your sister, it is upsetting when someone is aggressive towards you or tells you that you are worsening their mental illness, especially more so when the person in question is your sister. I also understand that until now it's been even more difficult as your parents have been satisfied with the status quo, so it's hard to intervene.

Some of your sister's behaviour towards your parents sounds emotionally abusive. If this does genuinely stem from mental health- and I doubt that much, if any, of her behaviour is directly attributable to that now (although it is possible that it may have it's origins there), then your sister needs to address her mental illness.

If your mum has significant mental health issues and these issues impact on her ability to keep herself safe (in the broadest sense), she could potentially be classified as a vulnerable adult. If that were to be the case, she does need someone to intervene to ensure she is kept safe.

I think perhaps you need to talk to your mum and dad to see if you can find out how the really feel about the situation and what, ideally, they would want to happen. You need to encourage and support them in achieving that. It won't be easy, so you have my sympathies.

flippin Its a lot easier now I don't bother with her and have physically distanced myself from my family. Doesn't stop her trying to niggle at me via them though but she nearly always comes unstuck now.

Most recent was about how selfish I was for not dropping everything when DM got her cancer diagnosis but I'd dropped everything for MIL, except I hadn't done the same for MIL at all. Bless MIL, she had no clue and told my DM how thankful she was that DH and I had treated her like an adult with a brain and let her tell us what she wanted and when, which was largely to be left alone! But I derail...

OP I hope your parents can come to terms with setting boundaries themselves. Just be there for them whatever, even if its at the end of a phone.

Yes, it's definitely easier to deal with people like this from a distance Hashi. At the end of the day they are the ones who miss out because eventually they alienate people through their awful behaviour and have a very limited life. You could almost feel sorry for them. I said almost!