WWYD - sibling feels entitled to DPs time

[hatchbackofnotredame]

NC for this, but regular.

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible, but don't want to dripfeed so a bit of background is needed.

Sister is childless, recently bought her first house with her longterm partner, having lived at home to that point. She has mild anxiety and depression, but both she and her partner hold down well-paid graduate jobs. Despite owning her own home (which is beautiful) for 2 years, she still lives with my parents at weekends, including taking her washing there for them to do. She also spends all her annual leave there (she has literally never had a holiday elsewhere). She is 37.

Recently, due to a scheduling conflict, my parents pulled out of an arrangement to see Dsis and her partner for a week of annual leave. They didn't communicate this well to Dsis, and left it to the last minute to tell her, which was understandably upsetting for her.

However, Dsis is now refusing to speak to, or contact, our parents and says she feels that they have shown her "disrespect". (While I feel that they could have given her more notice, I disagree that they intended to show a lack of respect by it). She is accusing them of deliberately depriving her of any possibility of having a nice week off, because she can't possibly take time off in her own home with her partner and still enjoy it. Therefore, they have "ruined" her holiday and she can't forgive them for depriving her of "precious downtime".

What concerns me most is that she takes the position, and I quote, that our parents' refusal to have her over for the week means that they are "in dictating mode and there is very little that is less helpful that people telling you they know what you need better than you yourself do". In other words, she TOLD my parents she needed a week off with them, and they dared to suggest they had other things to do and that she really should get more used to spending annual leave with her partner alone. My sister thinks this is absolutely outrageous and that they owe her a nice time on her week off. There is no room her for my parents to have their own independent desires.

Important bit of context: my position to date has been to stand clear of this relationship and to let them all get on with it. I have, however, become quite concerned about things since my DM has significant MH issues and there have been hints that these are being (unwittingly or deliberately) exploited. In particular, my mother finds it very hard to say "no" (due to an abusive childhood) by herself, so it's incredibly difficult for her to set boundaries. What happens repeatedly is that my sister insists that there is a medical reason for her to get what she wants: she must have their company on a certain date because of her anxiety, they must do her washing because of her depression etc. Now it has become that my mother is "damaging her" by denying her the opportunity to have the annual leave she wants. My Mum has said explicitly she doesn't want to do these things like extra washing (she and my Dad are in their late 60s and both are cancer survivors), but she feels guilted into them.

I just don't know what to do. Part of me thinks I should continue to stay out of this as a toxic situation that is between them. Another part desperately wants to support and protect my parents, because I feel this is now reaching a point of entitlement/potential exploitation where it is becoming almost a mild form of abuse. WWYD?

I think it's a bit unfair to put lots of responsibility on the op to resolve this situation. She can support and refuse to engage and enable but she can't fix this.

Support your parents, but don't get involved with her. You know the triangle thing, Victim, Rescuer and Abuser, don't you? Don't enter into it, you'll lose.

I think it's a bit unfair to put lots of responsibility on the op to resolve this situation. She can support and refuse to engage and enable but she can't fix this.

^^ This is what I found.

You could encourage your parents do be less available - go away at weekends etc. but OP can't enforce it.

I found in the end I had to ask that they not talk to me about it as I couldn't do anything but get upset and feel powerless or get it from everyone if I tried to do anything.

I kept suggesting they talk to the relative involved - they do sometimes but it's taken years for them to put some boundaries in.

In your case OP reassure them they are being entirely reasonable if they talk about it and try and avoid reinforcing your DSis take on it and wait for them to sort their relationship out.

dragon - I don't know anything about autism, but the way it is done is quite manipulative, and that's not a trait I associate with autism? (This may be my ignorance of this topic, apologies if I have got it wrong).

So, for example, yesterday she was complaining to me about the situation on messenger. We had a very brief conversation - it's unusual for us to 'speak' this way. This was when she said about DP being 'in dictating mode', as I said in my original post. She said "my parents have no respect for me" and I replied "I don't think that is true, but I can see how the sudden nature of the cancellation of your holiday arrangements was upsetting". She replied by immediately accusing me of 'gaslighting' her by saying that - I don't even know really what that means.

jux - actually, I had forgotten all about the triangle!! I need to remember that - good advice.

Support your parents and stop walking on eggshells around her. Thats a choice you make, she doesnt make you do it. You do have a choice about how to react to her

This exactly. Walking on eggshells just maintains her awful spoilt behaviour.

I can see how the sudden nature of the cancellation of your holiday arrangements was upsetting

Wow, you really do pander to her don't you!?

sadly your sister does not sound stable.. x

"my parents have no respect for me" and I replied "I don't think that is true, but I can see how the sudden nature of the cancellation of your holiday arrangements was upsetting".

Perhaps - I guesses we'll agree to disagree - then immediately ask about something big in her life - or just ignore and do an abrupt subject change or suddenly have to go - might have been better.

I don't think your reply was wrong at all - seeing both side- but she is going to take it as a criticism of her and clearly she isn't taking that on board at all. Perhaps better to avoid the subject all together.

has anyone considered a diagnosis of personality disorder in your sister? Specifically narcissistic PD?

it's normal to make sympathetic noises when you're talking to someone who's complaining - even if in hindsight your mum obviously felt this was the best strategy due to your sister's manipulation. Just be offline/ignore her messages for a while.

Op I totally get your situation but I would like to add one small angle, as someone who lived at home due to various factors out of my control until 25, my sibling, who never liked me decided for me and for my dp that I was too old to be at home, and made it his mission to get me out.
I always tried to pitch in, when i was there but DM genuinely loved doing my washing and cooking! Se would also tell me how incredibly lonely she was, and DB never ever bothered with her. Never took her out for coffee, or go shopping or even talk to her on the phone. He left home at 17 and had decided inspite of me going down different route that is what I had to do as well. He made my time and poor dms a misery for going on about it all the bloody time. It didn't seem to come from any base in reality and because he is a bully and so pig headed DP would never say to him, actually we like having her here. They would just nod along to shut him up, and this perpetuated the whole situation. When I did move out - DM was always telling me she missed me, house empty etc, and how lonely she was, but at least I continued to speak to her and talk to her/take her out etc. Even after I moved out - DB and his wife never ever did

DH family is also a bit like this with sil, older lives near by and yet takes washing home is always popping in doesn't seem to have spread her wings but she is 36. Mil moans about her washing, Fil moans about it too - BUT THEY LOVE IT, its bloody obvious! They love the fact she still makes them feel needed!
In your case op I am not sure what I would do. Your sister sounds entrenched and defensive, the ultimate would be to have a mediator to navigate treacherous territory between you both. But I would try and get across that its not a common, usual done thing to spend all her holiday time with your dp.

Its easy to feel defensive to your parents and want to protect them, one needs to just make sure its not ones own projections mudding waters.

wicker - no, I don't know anything about personality disorders. I googled it and it doesn't seem to 'fit' - she is deeply entitled, but not extrovert in the way that the description suggests. I looked through the NHS list, and she might be closer to something like dependent personality disorder? However, she doesn't struggle to express disagreement from others, and instead of going to extreme lengths herself to get nurturance from others, she demands it as a right - and she likes a bit of drama, which don't fit that either.

I did manage to persuade her to go to counselling once, about 10 years ago, but she just bullied the counsellor to agree with her. In the end, the counsellor said she couldn't help. My Dsis thought this was a victory, that she'd somehow "won".

it's normal to make sympathetic noises when you're talking to someone who's complaining -

It really is.

That's why avoiding the subject entirely is easiest way to avoid idea that you agree with them or end up in a fight when you disagree and say so.

Or avoid the calls and messages or cut them short - be very busy for a while.

This must be like a blissful little holiday for your parents. I bet they're delighted to have a break

this. support your parents and I do agree that to step back is wise , and empower them as best you can

efteling - I think you make an important point, that transition to a new stage of adulthood can be difficult for everybody. I am sure every parent regrets the stage when their baby becomes a toddler, their toddler is suddenly a teen, and their teen a grown up - but, at the same time as that loss occurs, each of those stages represents a new, healthy beginning. Like all new beginnings, that can be an anxious time - parents have to adjust to an empty nest, children have to stand on their own two feet. However, that doesn't mean that the transition isn't very much the best and healthiest thing to happen for all concerned. And it doesn't mean a lack of love on either side - as you say, some independent children become more distant from their families, others remain close.

she can't do her own washing (she knows how to use a machine and washes her partner's clothes, but not her own)? Or cook her own tea (in spite of the fact that she can cook very well for my parents at the weekend)? It doesn't make sense

For whatever reason your mum cooking and washing for your sister have come to represent something important to her.
It's not just laziness, otherwise she would be sending her dp's laundry round too, and surely taking your laundry to someone else's house is more of a faff than just doing it yourself!
I'm not defending her at all - she is being v unreasonable and the situation will only get more problematic for your parents as they age - but I think there is something more deep seated psychologically than laziness/ entitledness.

I note that you say your sister was your dm's favourite. How has this changed as you both grew up? Did being the favourite ever have a negative effect on her as a child? Is she clinging onto being the favourite now? Is she trying to recapture the attention she had as a child?

Does she have any legitimate grievances against your parents that she is expressing by "punishing" them? I know I was unreasonably angry with my mum over lots of small things, until through therapy I realised I actually had a reasonable grievance for something big, but rather than tell her that (scary) I was picking small arguments with her constantly.

It sounds like therapy would help your sister, but she will refuse to go.

Perhaps your mum could benefit from therapy though? Would she consider it? The therapist could boost her resilience in responding to your sister appropriately. Whilst I think you should support your parents, given your sister's previous reaction to you disagreeing with her, I think it's good if your mum has an external source of support too.

"she just bullied the counsellor to agree with her" that's my mother to a t! She's been through more therapists than you can count and she does exactly that. She's very frustrated by psychiatrists because they see right through her. My mother has borderline personality disorder.

Also, what led to your sister finally moving out? That is a huge step - why did it finally happen?

X post with the counsellor experience

Have you read about borderline pd OP? How are her relationships with friends, colleagues, ex partners?

I think if you put yourself into the middle then it'll be you who gets it in the neck. It sounds like you could do with setting your own boundaries with your sister yourself.

There's a similar dynamic with my sister and DPs. My sister will spin anything as being against her and therefore needing my DPs more. I've found it better for my own mental health to just disassociate. I perform a sounding board function for both my DPs but won't get involved further. I've had to accept that they're making rods for their own backs and dropped the level of sympathy I have for them too.

Derlei

I didn't say she was thick - what a degree indicates is that you are able to cope with any learning disabilities you may have in order to achieve academic success. And it also indicates a good level of reasoning and independent thinking.

Are you thinking about the autistic spectrum? That isn't usually subsumed under LD, though I suppose it could be.

Your sister is a horrible bully. Using anxiety and depression to manipulate everyone around you is abusive behaviour. My SIL does just this and we now no longer have any contact with her as a consequence.
Your sister sounds extremely narcissistic, have a look at "narcissistic personality disorder" and see if it rings true. Otherwise I would have a frank talk with your parents - tell them you feel she is abusing their love and unwillingness to challenge her. Ultimately they do need to tell her that enough is enough and that if them refusing to indulge her makes her anxiety worse, then that needs professional help, not her washing done at 37 years of age. She is like an abusive boyfriend threatening suicide to keep his partner in line. It is terrible behaviour, and it really does need to stop, she can't be allowed to continue like this. You and your parents need to stand firm together.

Your sister has mild anxiety and depression? She sounds like a full on Narc to me.

I think it's time someone told her to get to fuck and I am afraid to say it might need to be you. How much longer can you stand by and watch your poor parents be emotionally abused and manipulated by her?

Her partner sounds like a spineless enabler as well.

My parents have never, ever dared to stand up to her before, there has never been this space.

I think this is an excellent point Hatchback - having her out of their home has given them the opportunity to:
a) appreciate the peace and quiet when the "drama llama" isn't there
b) allowed them to build up their emotional and physical strength to the degree that they can begin to stand up for themselves
c) made them realise that they don't have to live as her personal body servants

Do as you intend. Offer them emotional, and if necessary, physical support.

Suggest to your sister that she employs someone to do her washing (though I doubt the person would last long if she did).

It really is very unfair to make elderly ill people do everything for you when you are able to do it yourself.

i could be willing to buy that she has some issue with doing her own washing, but i can't for the life of me see why she can't find a better solution than imposing on her parents. Get a housekeeper, go to a laundrette, she does her partner's washing, he does hers - that's 3 off the top of my head. I know my family member feels her parents somehow owe her for mistakes she perceives they made in her upbringing...