To have asked for £160 from a single mum on income support

[lucindia]

I'm a childminder. I looked after a child for a single mum on income support. She was doing the 15 hours free hours. She phoned to tell me she would be sending her daughter to the local school in 4 weeks time.

So I contacted the funding department to explain that I would no longer be having the child and the date that would start.

They got back to me and said they would only be able to pay the first week of the notice period and the rest would have to be paid for by the parent.

Even though the mum had given me a months notice, I didn't actually have her child at all during that month. The day she text to say she would be going to school in a months time, was the day she stopped coming to me as the Mum was visiting family for a month.

But I was still entitled to be paid for that month. It was also a compulsory notice period.

So I sent a very polite message to the Mum explaining that she would have a balance of £160 to pay as the funding department could only pay 1 weeks notice.

She said that was fine but would need to wait until her income support payment came in the next day and would then send me that. She would send the £60 the following week from her child tax credit.

I thought nothing of it.

I mentioned it in passing to my mother in law (who I get on very well with) and she said she couldn't believe I made her pay £160 when I never even looked after her child for that notice period month and that seeing as my husband and I have a joint income of 40k we could have easily afford to let her off with the £160 which was a lot for a single mum on income support.

I never considered I was doing anything wrong. I'm entitled to be paid for that month and there's a notice period for a reason.

I really like the girls mum and we always had a great relationship when her daughter was with me. She's been with me from before she was 1 as her mum was finishing university.

What do you think. Was I unreasonable to ask for the money?

She's on benefits but qualified in a professional job and job hunting. So does have options.

I don't get this. From what I can make out she gave the required notice. You not getting the money from who pays you should be your issue and not hers if she hasn't had to pay out of her own pocket up to now. Did she have to pay extra before now?

I would say it would be the equivalent of you handing your notice in in mid December but your boss saying it doesn't count because of Christmas so you will have to work extra in the new year. What usually happened over the school holidays? did they fund them or did she? or did you not have the child in the holidays (in which case are you actually out of pocket?)

It all sounds a bit confusing tbh but I cant get my head past someone who is supposed to have 'free' child care suddenly being landed with £160 bill because they no longer require the 'free' childcare. I'm not saying this is your fault OP but it seems a really backwards system if this is able to happen!

If you filled the slot with another child then YABU . I personally wouldn't have charged her anyway though. I know it's business but sometimes Its just good to do the right thing by someone and it sounds like that £160 was needed by her way more than by you.

By paying you she has shown she is a much better person than you OP. You weren't even looking after her child. Yes, you were entitled to the money but taking what you're entitle to isn't often the nicest approach.

They say that what goes around comes around...

So, if you had waited three weeks to contact the funding department, she wouldn't have needed to pay you as they would have done?

In that case, I think you should learn from this and wait to notify them in the future.

YANBU when I was on the bones of my arse a few year ago (single parent, esa) I would of been offended if you'd tried to waver the fee.

I might of been skint but I've never needed charity or pity. Obviously I can speak for everyone she could of felt differently.

Besides your running a business.

This thread is batshit.

OP - YANBU. And not mean at all.

Stealth you're right, OP was out of pocket. Not sure how or why people can think otherwise.

I wouldn't do it. It's not the sort of person I'd like to be. Your perfectly entitled to do it but it's just not the sort of way I'd live my life.

Once and never, exactly. And in a similar way the mil does not know the ops financial position. A household income of £40000 obviously seems like a jmhuge amount to her but she doesn't know the reality.

On the couch do you refund your boss each month any money you don't strictly need to put food on your family's mouths?
Or is it just childminders who should do this?

My friends landlord let them off rent over Christmas as they were so broke as he didn't really need it. It does happen. It's called compassion in business.

And do you do the same with your employer?

It's not mean or greedy, it's an income that needs protecting. It was the parents choice to move her child to preschool, it was her choice to only give 4 weeks notice and her choice to go away and not use the space for those 4 weeks. So why exactly should the childminder loose part of her income to cover the costs of somebody else's choices? Childminders suck up a lot of costs and often loose out as families needs change and chide drop hours etc. People need to realise that you are paying for the space that you have booked, if you choose not to use it, that's your choice but you still have that space reserved. The real issue here probably lies with the local authority who, as usual, will only pay the minimum they can get away with.

I am a childminder and it makes me really annoyed that so many posters are saying the op is mean.
She isn't mean, she is a childcare professional running a business.
I feel for the mum in this situation and depending on my own situation I may well of waived the balance, set up a payment plan or only asked for a percentage.
This would be based on what I could afford at the time. I also have my own financial obligations regardless of how much I would want to support the family.

The notice period was stipulated in the contract, it doesn't matter that the OP didn't actually look after the child in that period.

If your employment contract states you are entitled to maternity pay, sick pay or holiday pay, I can't imagine you would be very impressed if your employer refused to pay you if you were off work for any of these reasons, on the basis that 'you hadn't done any work that week'.

Well apparently there are people who ring up payroll and say they can manage with half their salary this month, so maybe those people are also fine with no maternity pay. After all they're not actually doing any work.

I'd be pissed off that your MIL is belittling your professionalism by treating it as disposable hobby income. Childminding = women's work = not a real job.

Exactly. The husband pays the bills. The wifeswans about playing with babies all day and gets pin money - not that important.

To be fair quite a few posters on here seem to think the same as MIL that childminding is not a proper job

Not unreasonable at all. Not charitable, but that's your business. She doesn't get let off by the water company or get her petrol free at Esso either, but no-one is berating them for taking her money when she uses their services.

I worked in a children's centre with disadvantaged families.

We used to have situations like this all the time. People were expected to pay and we were not averse to sending out strongly worded letters either or threatening court action if necessary. We also used to charge £10 for every 15 minutes they were late to pick up or part thereof.

The lady in the office would work out payment plans etc. But we were very strict about it. Said office lady scared me actually.

Business is business OP. And those saying you would get recommendations for your business by letting this lady off should perhaps consider that they would be recommendations you wouldn't really want.

The woman would have not expected to have to pay given that her place was funded. That's why a more generous stance could have been taken, not because it's childminding.

I love how magnanimous people are with other peoples income.

You are basicaly saying as you are 'just a
child minder' you should give up your months income to subsidise someone else's lifestyle.

Once you start letting people off with fees due where do you stop? Have you any idea how many sob stories cms get? And when it comes to giving notice people can be bloody unpleasant. So many go on childcare forums and suddenly remember that the cm didn't tell them little Johnny had blown his nose a week ago there for obviously had a health concern which cm didn't highlight and can they get out of paying the notice period to such a terrible money grabbing neglectful person? I have read some pathetic excuses people feel are perfectly justifiable not to pay what they agreed in their contract despite admitting they have been perfectly happy with cm up till then.

Cms are running a business to keep a roof over their and their families heads same as everyone else yet apparently thats 'money grabbing'. Funny how other jobs are not seen in this way.

I don't think you're mean. I don't think you would be considering it to the extent of asking people's opinion about it if you were.

You know that you're legally entitled to charge her, so that's not an issue.

Ethically, I think your MIL is right. I definitely wouldn't have charged her. You don't need the money, but it's very likely that she does. You didn't actually provide her with any services during that period. You haven't mentioned any significant negative consequences for you if you waive it, but it is reasonable to assume that (since income support is the minimum amount of money a person is expected to live on) she and her child will suffer in some way by you demanding it.

I don't think the analogies about business behaviour are helpful. The parent is an individual, not a business. The op is asking a question about ethics, not law. The consequences for this mum aren't comparable to the consequences for a general business employer.

@MajesticWhine has it spot on.

Also if you are taking a funded child, I'd argue your "standard" contractual terms are varied. The payer only will agree to a weeks paid notice. If you want these contracts THESE are the terms of notice.

Insisting on a months paid notice, and expecting someone on low income to cover the difference, (when they have not ever paid you) because you've chosen an unrealistic way to manage the difference in contracts, is extremely unreasonable.

And mean.

Most people taking up these 2yo places are encouraged to do it by the free place. That is the whole point of them.

YANBU. You are running a business, not a charity, your terms were in your contract. And I say that as a business person who has been a lone parent on IS. The mum probably didn't mind at all tbh.