To have asked for £160 from a single mum on income support

[lucindia]

I'm a childminder. I looked after a child for a single mum on income support. She was doing the 15 hours free hours. She phoned to tell me she would be sending her daughter to the local school in 4 weeks time.

So I contacted the funding department to explain that I would no longer be having the child and the date that would start.

They got back to me and said they would only be able to pay the first week of the notice period and the rest would have to be paid for by the parent.

Even though the mum had given me a months notice, I didn't actually have her child at all during that month. The day she text to say she would be going to school in a months time, was the day she stopped coming to me as the Mum was visiting family for a month.

But I was still entitled to be paid for that month. It was also a compulsory notice period.

So I sent a very polite message to the Mum explaining that she would have a balance of £160 to pay as the funding department could only pay 1 weeks notice.

She said that was fine but would need to wait until her income support payment came in the next day and would then send me that. She would send the £60 the following week from her child tax credit.

I thought nothing of it.

I mentioned it in passing to my mother in law (who I get on very well with) and she said she couldn't believe I made her pay £160 when I never even looked after her child for that notice period month and that seeing as my husband and I have a joint income of 40k we could have easily afford to let her off with the £160 which was a lot for a single mum on income support.

I never considered I was doing anything wrong. I'm entitled to be paid for that month and there's a notice period for a reason.

I really like the girls mum and we always had a great relationship when her daughter was with me. She's been with me from before she was 1 as her mum was finishing university.

What do you think. Was I unreasonable to ask for the money?

She's on benefits but qualified in a professional job and job hunting. So does have options.

I am a LP and a childminder.

It is a job you cannot do without caring about the children..However I do work to provide for my DS.

I have had people give me 4 weeks notice ( as per contract and is fine) however I had turned work down that could of filled that space..Parents returning to work after maternity leave often look months in advance not 4 weeks away. So it can take time to fill that space. That is why the notice period is important.

I don't see why OP shouldn't have charged her. Although you may well of had funding issues if Mindee did not attend for 4 weeks.

Actually stealth as a land lord - it's not the same.

The op did not lose buisness because of the child not being there. AND no court in the land would refund me money if the tenant was not there! That's why so many LL are now using guarantors.

If she gets free childcare paid by the state then why can't they pay the notice as if the child was there??

If you continued having the child then the state would have continued to pay so I think it's utter bullcrap that they said they can only pay the first week! (Not saying you are lying, I'm just saying they are shit). If I was the Mum I'd have just kept quiet for the notice period & cut it off after so they'd already paid.

Please explain how she did not lose business. Surely if she would usually receive £160, and this time waived it she would be £160 down. She's already said she didn't have time to fill it.
Genuinely please explain it, so many people are saying the opposite that I'm sure it's me.

Karma we think they stared paying the new provider

Stealth, I for one am not saying that the OP didn't lose business. However if she is in a position to waive at least part of the fee then it would have been a kind thing to do.

Implying you would have done had you thought you'd have received the money

Yes ! If it was a big buisness or folk that had plenty of funds and I was out of buisness. But in this case the woman was a single parent on income support and it's fucking hard. You clearly have no idea what £160 would bring to her family. Let's hope she doesn't get a ridiculous sanction any time soon.

The woman is clearly a good person by even giving her more than half, she should have been shown some compassion.

If I was still on income support and some one told me I owed them £160 for not looking after my child I would have completely refused or offered £1 a week

Others are though. And that the contract was useless

But she changed her mind. Op was still offering the service.
If the woman went into a restaurant and changed her mind after he food arrived she would have been expected to pay for food she hadn't even eaten.

Or booked a non refundable holiday but then realised she wanted to go somewhere else.

Childminders have very limited spaces, so if they have clients booked in then they won't be advertising spaces, they'll be turning potential clients who get in touch away because they're full. As soon as a client gives notice you generally start advertising and responding positively to enquiries.

Notice periods are normal and legal in all sorts of contracts. Including for Childminders.

You'd find it difficult to succeed in court as a childminder or as a landlord if you had replaced the client or made no effort to do so in order to offset the loss.

Why is it small businesses expected to cut the slack try going into m and s or white company and explaining they should give you goods because you have a low income. Not how the world works.

Depends what resultant you eat in, I've sent food back and not paid for it. Wagamama have a policy that if you don't like it you can choose something else

She can offer all she likes but she still didn't look after her child. She insisted on getting paid for a service that wasn't used of a lone parent on benefits.

That's scraping the barrel that. I hope op learns compassion because one day she will expect it of some one else

She wouldn't be forced by the courts to pay the holiday and it wouldn't be on her credit file either.

Jazzy - yes but in this scenario as far as we know there was nothing wrong with the service Op was providing - the mum just decided she'd rather go on holiday than use the last month after she'd given notice - so to continue the parallel it's like going into Wagamamas, ordering food then when it comes deciding, although there's absolutely nothing wrong with the meal, you now fancy McDonald's instead. You're saying Wagamamas just suck up the cost of the wasted meal.

I can't believe people think OP is "mean" for expecting people to follow a contract - especially when the mother didn't complain at all, and could have carried on using the service. The mother could have chosen to give in the notice 4 weeks earlier and so use the notice period.

I also don't think that most of the posters would be happy if their paycheck was cut by £160 one month because they "don't need it".

she can offer all she likes but she still didn't look after her child.
That was the mothers choice! She chose not to send the child during the 4 weeks notice-the CM didn't tell her not to come,or that she wouldn't look after the child;her space was there to be used during that period,so if the mother decided not to use it then it was her problem.
Thousands of childcarers (not just CM's) across the country are going to be struggling, and probably giving up completely, from September onwards when the 30 hours funding comes in because the local authorities will be paying up to £2 less per hour than the childcarers usually charge. We choose to be CM's for various reasons-we want to be at home for our children, we want to be our own boss etc etc....but what really pisses me off is when people see us as second rate to nurseries and pre schools and think it's ok to slag one of us off for asking a parent to pay what they owe,according to their contract, which they have agreed to and signed, whereas if it was a nursery or preschool asking for the money nobody would bother!!

Regardless of it being a business, if I could have afforded to go without, I'd have offered to waive the notice period given the circumstances. It's a lot of money for someone in her situation to have to find and if it were simply to boost my business bank balance, and on a point of principle I.e those are the terms she signed up to, I wouldn't feel comfortable with it.

I get that business is business etc, but many businesses do offer to reduce payments or offer discounts in certain circumstances, it falls under corporate social responsibility.

It's your choice, your business, you weren't necessarily wrong to ask for the money but I can see where your MIL is coming from.

But OP Doesn't know the mother'a full financial position.
She only knows one aspect of it - she is on income support. The mother could:

• have the option to work more than 16hrs p/w but chooses not to because there's no financial incentive
• have up to £16k in savings
• have a rich/financial stable partner
• have an ex p (child's father) who pays fair to generous child maintenance
• live in subsidised/free accommodation (such as with family)

Meanwhile another of her mindees parents could be on the bones of their arse for wherever reason but hasn't disclosed this to OP so wouldnt be eligible for a MN sanctioned pity discount.

OP is running a business not a charity. She doesn't have to arbitrarily award reductions to some clients but not others based on unfounded assumptions about their financial circumstances. She could even get into legal trouble for doing so if one if the other parents decided to challenge it.

I wouldn't have asked her for the money but I'm going to leave my comment there and just say that MN has shown me how really tight and selfish people can be - 40 grand a year and you took £160 from a single mum on benefits when you didn't actually look after her child for that period, greed!!

*Have any of you actually been on your arse on income support and to boot a single parent? It's actually awful and every penny counts.

It's really mean and grabby*

Yes I have been on income support and I'm a lone parent, you are not wrong in saying how awful it is and every single penny really does count.
I don't think you can call OP mean and grabby though, she is running a business and the mother had every right to continue using her services during the notice period but she chose not to do so, that's not on OP.

It's not greed. That money is the OPs wage. Would you be happy not to be paid your notice if your company decided they didn't need you anymore,

Op wages for doing nothing.

If your employment contract has 1 month notice in it then, unless they're firing you for gross misconduct or similar, your employer has to pay you that even if they let you go immediately. The OP has an equivalent clause in her contract with the parent.

The OP is not a charity. People do take the absolute piss out of childminders on a very regular basis- we've had little choice but to become harder. And when people are leaving is generally when the worst of the crappy behaviour starts ime.

Its not wages for doing nothing. Its her contrcted notice period.

The parent was quite at liberty to use the time for childcare. She chose not to.

The parent was quite happy to pay as she asked the op what she was due her. As pp said she could have substantial savings and still be in rerciept of benefits.

If you contract someone to provide a service you are obliged to pay the contracted terms.

CM is not a charity, she runs a business which pays the bills.

Many people have no idea how some parents put their cm fees last on their lists of things to pay. I know plenty cms who have had to chase up for fees cos the person thought that going out to get pissed was more important than paying her childcare, or was paying the deposit for their holiday that month and 'couldnt afford both'.
Its shocking how cm is viewed as 'the little womans pin money' and people dont understand the expenses that cm have to pay out just to stay registered.

How many people would accept their work telling them they were being paid off and that they had a months notice, but oh btw we arent paying it, sure you understand, nothing personal, and you can just juggle your bills until you find another job.