Disabled should work for less than minimum wage

[ElvishArchdruid]

Watching BBC24 and astounded at a woman who has come on to endorse that disabled folk should be paid less than normal (whatever that is) folk.

It's done her daughter the world of good and she thinks it fair as her daughter works at a slower pace with Downs Syndrome. I feel like they're casting a rather big net for a single group that may work slower. But the insinuation that I should be paid less than minimum wage is pretty outrageous. I'm sure there's lots like me who are mentally very capable, but have a body that doesn't co-operate.

A charity has endorsed this position too.

It has left me fuming, the woman by appearances can take the hit of her daughter getting paid less than minimum wage, let alone a living wage, subsidising her daughter possibly.

There is anger whilst I type this, but I can't see myself ever accepting such a suggestion.

Last time I checked we still had a mortgage and bills to pay charlie
We don't get let off because DH is disabled. If there was a 25% on all our bills I am pretty sure he would agree to work for 25%.
Until that time, this idea can fuck off.

^

I think if you look at it from a purely logical perspective she is right in a lot of ways. People who would fit in this bracket would be those who are almost certain never to be able to live independently. They will always be "subsidised" by someone, whether it's their family or the state. A salary they could live on in relative comfort independently (which is what the NMW is intended to allow) isn't needed. What is needed is something for people with SLD to do after school/college which will give them confidence and fulfilment and allow their carers some regular respite. Volunteering, great as it is, isn't always available and being an employee would give them a lot more protection.

There's the risk that this could be open to abuse definitely, so it would needed to be handled well. But there must be so many employers, particularly small business owners, who would be open to employing adults with LDs but don't have the margins to allow for a less productive or efficient member of staff. If they're hiring they will in all likelihood need "value for money", so the applicant with LDs isn't going to get a look in. There are so many jobs of this nature- sweeping hair in a hairdressers, waiting staff, warehousing- which could be accessed by people with LD's.

The NMW for those under 18 is £4.05 PH from next month, those between 18 and 20 get £5.60. We already base NMW on age, partly because younger workers face competition from more experienced applicants which the discrepancy is designed to counterbalance. This is a very similar scenario. So long as the criteria were strict (based on the same criteria one would need to get into a college course designed for those with LD) I think this could be a really positive thing for a lot of people who are just floating at the moment.

On the surface yes it sounds outrageous....but I have an adult ds with autism,I know the chances of him finding employment are going to be slim,he's going in to assisted living...the percentage of people with autism in employment is very low...many end up volunteering.....turning it on its head.if an employer could get someone to do the job for Half the wage ,that would mean employers more likely to employ people who would otherwise be sat at home or volunteering....im kind of typing as I think this throu,,,my lads self esteem would be sky high with a paid job...but how would he feel if he found out he was only getting half of the pay the next person was....oh I don't know,my lad will need to work for his mental Heath to stay strong...but on less money..I don't know

I am depressed at the assumptions made about people with LDs on this thread.

But Vegan if he can do the job he should get paid for it.
If he is good enough to volunteer he is good enough to get paid.

The job gets done or it doesn't.

We are begging employers to tolerate our loved ones even if they can do the job.
Thats not right.

Like a youth training scheme,where the person received support ,the employer received support ,the scheme created jobs...DLA could be reduced or just claimed as a top up of wages.with protection of a pension and sick pay ...

I hear you mrs dv

It's such a difficult issue, I don't want my son without a purpose in life..but he has a one to one.hes never crossed a road alone...who will realistically give him a job...he can't / won't wash or dress himself.

I am not one for the 'slippery slope' argument Vegan but I really think its appropriate here.

Historically we have paid people less for lots of reasons. Women being the prime example. Unmarried people used to get paid less than married men. Poor people paid less than the better off.

Its all about assumptions. We have fought against the assumptions that led Women and non white people being deemed worth less than white middle/upper class men. We can't give up and go backwards.

I do share your concerns about the future of our sons though

Yes yr totally right

I worked in a restaurant a few years ago where they had a lovely lady with down syndrome in to wash the dishes and paid her a pittance, like £5 for a couple hours cause she was "happy with that"

I find the whole idea of paying disabled people less than able bodied people abhorrent because it is so open to abuse. I am physically disabled but I can do my particular job as well as anyone who isn't so why should I be paid less? I know people will argue that I wouldn't be paid less if I wasn't slower at my job but who knows what would happen if became accepted practice to pay disabled people less than those who aren't. It would be a real step backwards.

Thing is, Vegansnake, you're worried about your son having something to do that will entertain him and make him feel worth while. Jolly good.

Other disabled people are worried about having enough to eat and being made homeless. There are threads right now from people who can't heat their homes, are facing homelessness, have had friends kill themselves because of cuts to disability services and benefits.

It's not in the same ball park.

In the current situation, where the government is leading the way in abusing disabled people, with tricks and turns in everything from making application forms harder to get hold of, to ceasing to obtain medical evidence before assessments, to sanctioning people for not attending interviews at buildings with no disability access... Any reduction of protection for disabled people who do actual productive work, is going to be abused left, right and centre.

I hope your DS does find an environment where he can do meaningful, enjoyable activity. But please don't compare it to work done to pay the bills.

I suppose I was just thinking about him finding it easier to find employment..but then how crushed would he be to find he wasn't paid the same..no mrs dv you are totally right the more I think ,the more I realise it would be wrong.

The problem with making this the law would be that it would be too open to exploitation. The reality is that many employers already assume that people with disabilities are not as productive even if that's not the case, but it goes a great deal of the way towards understanding why over 50% of people with disabilities are out of work. The risk is that it would end up like workfare where large corporations were able to essentially end up with cheap or free employment by taking on people on the programme. I can imagine that tesco and the like would be rubbing their hands together at the thought of being able to employ people on less than the minimum wage. The number of disabled in work would increase, people in the WRAG group of ESA would be strongly encouraged to apply for jobs in these companies, and the government could gleefully announce to the world that it was set to meet its target of halving the disability employment gap by 2020.

Meanwhile more people with disabilities would be living in poverty, the large corporations would be making more money by not having to pay minimum wage, and people would start to accuse the disabled of taking jobs

"people in the WRAG group of ESA would be strongly encouraged to apply for jobs in these companies"

By which we mean, sanctioned for not taking them.

Flatly,I wasn't comparing it to anything..this is the first I've heard of this idea,I was just looking at the idea this thread presented from the perspective of my son,who will never be able to live alone ,manage money ,or be independent.not comparing that to anything...

This is shameful - but it isn't just the disabled (who also need a wage to live) who are taken advantage of - there is also this:
you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/mooboo-pay-your-staff?utm_source=email&utm_medium=blast&utm_campaign=1_3_2017_mooboonewcastle&bucket=email-blast-1_3_2017_mooboonewcastle&utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blast2017-03-01

(Hope this link works - looks iffy)

Anyway - it's from 38Degrees. A Newcastle cafe - Mooboo - is making applicants for jobs do a work trial of 40 hours unpaid but no guarantee of a job at the end of it. Half day/day works trials are common but this is disgraceful.

The worker is entitled to be paid, whether they are disabled, presently on benefits - whatever. Why the hell should these employers get a full week's free labour from the desperate? Imagine the disappointment when you have been given this hope, signed off any benefits and then been used as slave labour for a week only to end up still unemployed.

Firms which take on people with disabilities are often fulfilling government quotas - but by paying less than minimum wage what they are saying is that the disabled are worth less. This isn't true and it isn't fair - they are still putting their all into the job and are entitled to remuneration.

I guess she means so unemployed disabled people can have a better chance of finding work. Not that people that are already in employment should take a pay cut.

I find the whole idea of paying disabled people less than able bodied people abhorrent because it is so open to abuse

Dead right Roomster

So the brother was entertainment for others a nice lad to have around so he deserved a little something for working so like a child getting pocket money

And the brother loved going. Any payment would have been just like pocket money, he wasn't a productive 'employee' in fact one of the other staff was slowed down because they had to look after him. Do you think he shouldn't have been allowed to go?

Actually flatly ,that was insulting what you put..the bit before you wrote jolly good..did you mean to be so rude?

They already are. .......my cousin has 'worked' for the British heart foundation shop for 15 years. He works hard, pretty much 9 till 5, days a week.

He cleans, sorts stock, works the till, prices things up helps on the van with collections / deliverys etc. All without being paid a penny.......and there ARE paid staff members, none of them have any sort of disability. It's bloody wrong, he puts the work in and is a valued employee, he should be paid for it.

My son has only just become a man..we spent yrs fighting for his right to an education..perhaps I will do a thread about that one day..now we will have to fight for employment for him.