To think DD's punishment from PE teacher was draconian?

[moonlightshadow1]

DD is in Year 10 and came home quite annoyed about a punishment she got in PE for something very minor in the first place. Her teacher made her get changed into her PE kit at lunchtime (without any tracksuit in the cold wet weather), and run laps around the football pitch for all but the last 15 minutes of the break (so she could eat), much of it whilst the boys were having football practice, who apparently found it quite funny. Is it overreacting to think this is a bit out of order? I might not have been surprised when I was at school but I can't help be a bit annoyed, seems a bit like it was intended to embarrass her and unnecessary.

i think it's a great punishment. And the sitting to the side. Hopefully she will learn to keep quiet now

But has it worked? Do you think she'll still be 'lippy' with this teacher or will it make her think twice?

There is a strict criteria for disciplining students and if your DD had already been "spoken to" prior to this incident (you have stated your DD is a year 9 student) and had been "lippy," then the teachers discipline method might have been due to this behaviour.

When year nine students act this way it is often to "let off steam!" I am not saying that this was the reason, But maybe the teacher thought if she did a few laps at lunch-time she would be too exhausted to be so "lippy." You should speak to the teacher about it on the next parents day just to clarify.

So OP if you agree that the punishment was humiliating and that was the teachers intention are you going to contact the school?

Thank goodness ojr1609 words of reason from a actual pe teacher!!
Has I said futher up thread, of the teachers I know none of them thought this was acceptable and they said it would be highly unlikely that this formed part of the schools behaviour policy.
Again as I've said before, if this isn't the schools policy for dealing with misbehaviour in pe lessons, then the teacher was very much in the wrong.

When I read this sort of stuff, it makes me glad I made the decision to leave teacher after 16 years. Rude, disruptive kids with vile attitudes and parents who back them up and question every attempt by staff to impose discipline. But then complain when there isn't any.

The problem of the youth of today ....
Is the problem of the parents today.

Fact.

Proven in the thread!

Yooff

I'd agree - she may have been embarrassed - but I doubt that was the teachers aim -

Low level disruption is bloody annoying and I doubt this is her first offense

ojr1609 thanks for your response, it's interesting to hear from a PE teacher who thinks the punishment was wrong. As you say it's not to excuse her behaviour at all, I hope, to have an issue with the punishment. Out of interest do you tend to follow a set disciplinary procedure for this sort of thing?

I am going to talk to her form tutor at lunchtime including about this. I talk to him quite regularly anyway as the school is good at keeping parents updated, I'll not be talking about this in the form of attacking the school though, more concern that the punishment was necessary to ensure I have the full story.

I think it is over the top.

Firstly, she was already punished during the lesson. You said she had been made to sit the lesson out so the matter was dealt with twice and not just once.

Secondly, it is a physical punishment. This is not allowed nowadays. She was also humiliated and demeaned in front of her peers. What would happen if an adult made treated in this fashion by an employer? Would that be allowed? They could end up at a tribunal. Why is it ok if it is kids?

Thirdly she was prevented from wearing clothing appropriate for the weather. This is a serious matter due to the cold weather. Would an adult have been prevented from wearing warm clothes on a cold day? I bet the PE teacher was warmly dressed.

Finally she was prevented from having a proper lunch break. Children need mental and physical time away from school during the day and the lunch break helps provide this. Everyone needs a lunch break. Did the PE teacher go straight to another lesson or did they have a "proper" break?

Yes, disrupting a lesson is rude and children must learn but there are better ways to handle it. In fact, it looks like the teacher did handle it the first time by preventing your daughter who is sporty from joining the lesson. The second form of discipline was unnecessary and overkill.

It's hard to imagine she wasn't then trying to push a few more boundaries, fidgeting, pulling faces etc. Sitting crosslegged for a relatively short time should not be an issue for a sporty teen.

But, you don't know that; that is pure speculation! Seeing the misbehaviour started at the beginning of the lesson, she would have been required to sit there for about 30 minutes, given the average length of a lesson; pretty uncomfortable to be in one position. We don't know if she simply stretched to get comfortable or did all the things are suggesting. I definitely think OP should contact the school to both find out and discover whether management actually approve of the further punishment.

Rude, disruptive kids with vile attitudes and parents who back them up and question every attempt by staff to impose discipline

Nonsense - what we're talking about here are APPROPRIATE methods of imposing discipline. There is no way that this school's behaviour policy includes "make girls run laps in the cold in front of jeering boys". Or indeed run laps at all. The chances are that if you are disruptive in class, it's see a member of the senior leadership team for a dressing down, detention, that sort of thing.

And for goodness sake, being high spirited and joking around with your friends in class is not "vile". It is disruptive and annoying but it's quite understandably and age-appropriate behaviour. Goodness me, even adults clown around a bit at times! A good teacher/instructor will know how to get peoples' attention and bring it back to what the class is supposed to cover. I have been a running coach and some of the runners don't always listen - or do what I ask them to do - and chat to each other - all adults - would you also describe them as "vile"?

It is disruptive and annoying but it's quite understandably and age-appropriate behaviour

It is extremely disruptive and quite attention seeking tbh.

She wasn't punished by running laps - she was making up for missing the lesson

DS missed his maths lesson and had detention to complete the work - it's no different

The behavior policy will state any unfinished work to be completed

Normal to have lunchtime detention/punishment at DS school and is usually loosely based around the subject of disciplining teacher. I wouldn't have had a problem with it tbh. If it was that bad for her then hopefully she will stop disrupting the class so she doesn't have to do it again. Your complaint to the school I imagine will fall on deaf ears as well as wasting their time.

Maybe discuss the type of punishment with the school if you don't agree but at the end of the day the teachers have to be able to do their job or there's no hope for them being able to manage large groups of teenagers !

A group boys were playing football, not a class. We don't know how many of them were there - they could have been playing fives.

Now you really are making it up! OP has already said the boys were doing football training with a coach that didn't teach her DD.^

Can't believe this is still dragging on with the OP constantly changing or embellishing to try and make her point.

I totally agree with fairweather and OJC. I think using this type of punishment smells of not being a particularly engaging teacher. The comment made by the dd initially was high spirits prior to the class even starting. I'm curious at the type of results this school receives? As I've stated previously this teacher just sounds a little bit like a bully. Being a teacher does not prohibit you from displaying the same personality traits as the rest of society. What I think I have found most disturbing however on this thread is the totally blinkered view that the teacher could be anything but right. I think that's concerning. Simply because someone is in a position of authority does not always mean they are right. There also appear to be some frustrated and resentful teachers on this thread. I wonder why some of them went into a profession that they were aware (presumably having attended school themselves) that would mean having to deal with teenagers.

roseb thank you for your post, you make a lot of good points I do think the laps were fair enough - she missed out on PE due to her own behaviour and the school does have a responsibility to ensure pupils get a certain amount of exercise, but I agree with much of what you say.

fairweathercyclist I agree. I'm not condoning her behaviour at all, and have told here (hopefully) sternly what I think of it, having made her tell me in full. It was immature and stupid and warranted a punishment, I've never disputed that. As you say it should be appropriate.

CecilyP quite. I can understand her teacher simply telling her to sit as asked but it's not too surprising DD found it difficult to keep completely still and her legs crossed for the duration of the lesson.

cauliwobbles I can't see where I've done that, only replied to people and added more information when I've found it out.

Gildedcage thank you for that. It is a good school and does pretty well, also I've never had any problems with it before and find the teachers on the whole very helpful and willing to discuss things with parents, which is a positive!

I'd wager that the boys sniggered at her about having brought the punishment on herself. Which is also a public display of relief that it's not themselves who got such a punishment.

A recurring subtext here is that they sniggered because they are hopelessly uncontrolled & lascivious lads.

Sometimes MN has a rather low (& unfair) opinion of all males.

lljkk not at all. The laughing would have been for the reason you say and would have happened had a boy been running around girls or boys, a girl running around girls etc. The comments a couple made though were unacceptable. I always wanted my DCs to go to mixed schools so they'd interact with boys and girls, and DD has some male friends which I think is great. I'd also not be overjoyed if my DS was made to run around a group of his peers/pupils from the year above rather than a free field.

Op, I have think you may have made an error in describing your daughter as 'a bit lippy' - as someone who had a shit time at school, I know only too well the long term effects of 'lippy'. Regardless, it's clear that your gut reaction to the punishment is not good. It is irrelevant whether any of us think it is appropriate /inappropriate. You need to trust your instincts as a parent. I really struggle with making decisions about DS's education (he has ASD). What is your gut telling you here?

Jess I think you're right. I did that to try to show I'm not deluded in thinking she's an angel and am well aware she was in the wrong in the first place, and can at times answer back (which I don't think is unique to her...). I suppose "lippy" then made her sound like some constantly disruptive girl who's always mouthing off which she's not, she is generally obedient. My instinct is that I'm uncomfortable with it though I have taken in a huge number of posters who think it was fine in its entirity. DH also agrees with what I've said about it though isn't overwhelmingly bothered about it, more chalking it up to one of those things (and warned her of possible sanctions if she gets into trouble again this school year).