To think DD's punishment from PE teacher was draconian?

[moonlightshadow1]

DD is in Year 10 and came home quite annoyed about a punishment she got in PE for something very minor in the first place. Her teacher made her get changed into her PE kit at lunchtime (without any tracksuit in the cold wet weather), and run laps around the football pitch for all but the last 15 minutes of the break (so she could eat), much of it whilst the boys were having football practice, who apparently found it quite funny. Is it overreacting to think this is a bit out of order? I might not have been surprised when I was at school but I can't help be a bit annoyed, seems a bit like it was intended to embarrass her and unnecessary.

It wasn't discussed at the time because she didn't tell me until I pressed her on the boys "laughing at her" because I wasn't impressed with that. Not great for you to say "if that actually happened" really.

Yes, of course I get that her teacher told her to cross her legs not asked, it was clearly an instruction, I never said it wasn't. You asked how it could have been phrased and I said, yes DD probably still wouldn't have liked it much but it would have been better than a faux interrogation then more commands "and don't move an inch" etc. Why would you say all those things rather than simply what I said if not designed to embarrass her a little?

It would be easier, being busy, to give a simple instruction not "what do you think you're doing?" "Nothing miss", "how did I tell you to sit?" etc...

Wow this exact punishment was dealt to myself and a friend when we were in year 11. I'm 27 now and I've remembered it a few times since so it's obviously stuck with me. My friend and I hid behind a mound after one lap during running in PE and when we rejoined at the end someone snitched on us and told the teacher. In our shorts and tshirts we were made to run at lunch when boys played football etc.

I don't think it's such an issue about the clothing because if you're running you will be warm however I wouldn't be over the moon. But the real issue is this punishment seems backwards and not in your daughter's interests. I would say it was meant to humiliate her and that shouldn't be tolerated.

I wonder why she didn't issue detention? That would have been much more appropriate. I would speak to the head for their opinion and possibly ofstead for advice.

I wouldn't be happy about it at all. there are more appropriate ways to punish a teenager without using embarrassment as a tool which could lead to some psychological damage...my exp is obviously why I am traumatised and can't go to the gym and therefore spend my time watching tv and eating crispy creams
Seriously though... I think every parent will have different views on punishments but what I would say is why isn't detention an appropriate one here? Surely all parents would agree kids and teens do not want to be at school longer than they have to and that would have sufficed.

Interesting Jennifer to hear you had exactly the same punishment, not only the laps but around the boys playing football! I see what you mean about the clothing but since tracksuit is part of the PE kit as a whole, don't see why she couldn't wear it if she wanted. Also sorry but you and your friend hiding behind a mound and someone snitching on you to the teacher did make me giggle

Francis seriously how is not being able to sit still for a length of time embarrassing? It is made embarrassing by the behaviour of the teacher, and that is just the point. If the teacher cannot see that, it is worrying.

In the OP's shoes I would be comfortable saying that to the teacher once I had had it confirmed she really did tell my dd off for moving slightly by uncrossing her legs.

Wise words Jennifer.

Ok I missed that a tracksuit is the norm. I feel this makes the punishment worse... it seems the intention was to embarrass her. Any teacher should understand the trepidation of being a young woman and exposing your body unnecessarily. If your DD felt uncomfortable with her attire it makes the whole experience even more humiliating.

I would 100% formally question this decision of that teacher.

Sorry, I may have mislead - not the norm, she was in gym kit for gym. Just that it is part of the PE kit parents have to buy for kids so should be an option unless a skirt or shorts are necessary I'd have thought.

Did she at least have a t-shirt and shorts on? Yes. In which case it wasn't humiliating. I had to do it in bra and pants when I didn't have any kit for a PE detention when I was at school. What is the problem?

Very much so Italian, that's how it became embarrassing for her.

It's not so much the clothing that's the issue here. It's the principle of making a young girl/woman run around young men who would be likely to judge her appearance, talk about her to one another and possibly laugh at her expense. If she were wearing a full tracksuit it would still have been embarrassing for her.

I would have thought the majority of teenagers would absolutely hate having to do that and that is because it is embarrassing. An appropriate form of punishment could've been chosen that didn't involve public humiliation. I.e detention which I believe is a standard punishment.

Jennifer what would you have kids do during a detention, then? Just sit there, or make up for what they've missed?

Very well put Jennifer, I agree with you.

But Jennifer, is detention not a form of humiliation?

Pseudonym99 the fact that your teacher at your school required you to run in your underwear (which is 100% unacceptable) does not mean it is OK because the OP's dd had a sports kit on.

Clearly doing PE in one's PE kit is not a problem generally but it seems clear that this is not what is being described here.

Times had (I thought) moved on and humiliating pupils is wrong. Let's put at it's most basic, is humiliating pupils in a certain class going to lead to an interest in that subject? I think not.

How on earth do you get that detention is a form of humiliation? Sitting in a classroom for half an hour or so with a bunch of other miscreants, writing about 'why I must not talk out of turn in PE';how can that possibly be humiliating?

Italiangreyhound Making us do PE in our underwear, although being humiating, wasn't about humiliating us. It was about making us do PE. If we didn't have our kit, we just had to do it without our kit. The fact that having to do PE in my normal (as opposed to uniform PE) knickers when I was 14 in a class with both boys and girls is neither here nor there. We just had to get on with it, and it served as a reminder to remember our kit in the future.

Italiangreyhound I still fail to see how making a child do PE in their PE kit is a problem, even if they are doing on their own with others of the opposite sex watching? If they feel humiliated, then surely that is a good thing to stop them doing it again?

Pseudonym99 "We just had to get on with it, and it served as a reminder to remember our kit in the future."

Yes, it shamed you into not forgetting. Like all other forms of humiliation, remembering to do it in the future would get you out of the embarrassing situation. I personally think it was done on purpose that age. In primary it was just a thing that was done.

"Italiangreyhound I still fail to see how making a child do PE in their PE kit is a problem, even if they are doing on their own with others of the opposite sex watching? If they feel humiliated, then surely that is a good thing to stop them doing it again?"

The child in question was not made to do PE, as in participate in a PE class with her peers. She was made to run around a field, in the presence of a class of boys and a PE teacher. She was the only girl required to do this.

"If they feel humiliated, then surely that is a good thing to stop them doing it again?" NO because humiliating people is degrading, it doesn't teach them anything except shame or fear. And it is not something usually done in schools now, at all, like corporal punishment which is banned, it is generally frowned on to shame pupils.

It is the same idea as my colleagues shouting 'Hey fatty bum bum' as I enter the works canteen in theory would remind me I was overweight and stop me overeating at lunch. In reality I would most likely, if I gave a toss for that sort of thing, end up eating elsewhere alone, just as much because shame is not a good motivator, it tears down and does not build up.

I think I will have to produce my 'agree to differ' card.

You ANBU.
This is shocking and as a PE teacher myself I've had to deal with something like this before. It's totally unacceptable to use physical punishment on students that are designed to embarrass. IMO it is a form of bullying.
Teachers don't need to be told where to go as others have suggested... this doesn't help at all, ensuring that the students are taught to be respectful whilst others in the class, including the teacher, are talking is what should be taught here, alongside the teacher using different methods to deal with the low level disruption.
I would be furious if my son was treated in this manner and would be making an appointment to go into school. I wouldn't be excusing his behaviour at all, just questioning what sort of school allows this as a punishment. I find it concerning so many think that this is acceptable 😦