To be disappointed that feminist Emma Watson has posed topless

[MutePoint]

To promote her new film. Can't these A listers just wear a classy outfit?

I'm sure that Coke advert has been around a bit longer than 5 years!

Women get yer tits out, but not when you're breast feeding or old!

Feminism is about freedom this thread is about oppressing Emma Watson freedom to express herself how she likes. Women seems to be our biggest enemy. A woman can't express herself without another woman interfering.

This all reeks of the "your skirt is too long, your skirt is too short", "you are showing too much flesh, you aren't showing enough flesh", "you are too fat you are too thin" crap that is aimed at women Every.Single.Day and is extremely TEDIOUS.

Yes showing boobs, legs, bikini body, body pre and post dieting, hairless body, no wrinkles, glossy hair, pregnant body, post pregnant slim body, 70 year old slim body, younger man on arm body; it's all so fecking tedious.

Feminism means I have the means to express myself too London (and be empowered by it).

I think she looks beautiful. She's not naked that's the point isn't it. She looks gorgeous and sexy without actually showing anything.
Too many young women think they need to be naked or show there selves to be sexy and it isn't the case.

I hear pole dancing is very empowering too.

And it was on this very forum that someone explained to me why porn is a valuable expression of female sexuality and objecting to it was pure misogyny.

A man showing his chest totally equates to generations of wall to wall objectification of women.

Yes this is why feminism needs to be about sexual LIBERATION, rather than a focus on EQUALITY to oppress others as women are oppressed.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have equality in wages, votes etc, but I don't want to oppress and abuse men equally. I want women to be liberated from DV, rather then be equally entitled to abuse someone.

Not unsurprisingly, Andrea Dworkin expressed this much better than I ever could:

“A commitment to sexual equality with men is a commitment to becoming the rich instead of the poor, the rapist instead of the raped, the murderer instead of the murdered.”

Feminism means I have the means to express myself too London (and be empowered by it).

To tell another woman what to do is actually a form of bullying.

"To tell another woman what to do is actually a form of bullying."

However to say that you have an issue with another woman's course of action is sometimes necessary. Unless you are of the "women are not allowed to have a problem with anything that any other woman says because feminism" persuasion...

As long as shes happy and not forced against will. I am not one of those women who will tell another woman what to wear. That's what some arseholes say about rape victims "oh she shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt". Women are allowed to wear what they want.

I would be disappointed with that picture - mucky hair, smudgy black eye circles , the bovine gawp expression and Granny's reject crochet top. She looks ridiculous, not topless.

Women seems to be our biggest enemy. A woman can't express herself without another woman interfering.

Sure. Men murder and rape women, but yeah, sure, the worst problem women face in this world is other women having opinions on how they pose for pictures.

Not the wage gap. Not sexual harrassment at the workplace. Not domestic violence.

Other women saying nasty things is the worstest oppression women face.

Suuuuuure.

I think it's an awful picture. My DD (12) was bemused at it and said "she's almost topless mum, no need really, why is she doing that".

I think its a terrible photo of her. She is beautiful and I've seen some really good photos of her which capture that and this doesn't. She looks gormless.
I'm also quite disappointed that she's topless.
I can't remember who, it might have been Rhianna who responded to someone (or maybe Miley Cyrus) who criticised the trend of near nakedness in a lot of current music videos by saying that it was empowering to be able to express themselves how they wanted and they weren't doing it for anyone but themselves,etc.
But, at the end of the day, they are all trying to outdo each other in nakedness to please their male record producers and sell more records.
I would have expected Emma Watson to have more integrity than to try to gain publicity for her movie using that option..

Other women saying nasty things is the worstest oppression women face.

It's not. Men rape,murder,abuse etc women. Men hold women down literally and figuratively. We are told what to wear,what to think,how to act.
And on top of that we also get women telling other women what to wear,how to think,how to act. And "move over love,you're not the right kind of feminist". It's tiring and sometimes even disappointing. Even worse when they use men's mysoginistic words and views to do it. "Oh no,she did something shameful because the Sun said it's shameful,and she knew they'd say that".
I see that way of thinking really fucked up.

BertrandRussell: "However to say that you have an issue with another woman's course of action is sometimes necessary."

Indeed. I've noticed, increasingly, that expressions of dissent or disagreement on the internet ("I wish she hadn't said that"; "I'm disappointed that she did that") are met instantly with cries of: "Censorship!" "You're trying to stop freedom of speech!" "You're trying to silence people!" "You're trying to stop people doing what they want!"

I can never out whether these people are genuinely so stupid they can't tell the difference between an expression of disagreement and forcing someone not to say/do what they want; or whether they are just people who like getting angry for no reason.

Not confusing it with Vogue at all. Vanity Fair's circulation statistics show that 80% of its readers are women with a median age of 45. So the typical reader of Vanity Fair is indeed a woman aged around 45 with an interest in high fashion

Have you actually read Vanity Fair? It does not promote itself as a women's magazine. It has, or had the last time I read it, a limited amount of fashion for both sexes and lots of wordy articles I wasn't interested in. If you were interested in fashion it is not the magazine you would look to.

The analogy with Playboy is false. I bet the demographics of Mojo or Q or Uncut are mainly men aged 35 plus- that does not make any of them magazines aimed at men or men's magazines.

Indeed. I've noticed, increasingly, that expressions of dissent or disagreement on the internet ("I wish she hadn't said that"; "I'm disappointed that she did that") are met instantly with cries of: "Censorship!" "You're trying to stop freedom of speech!" "You're trying to silence people!" "You're trying to stop people doing what they want!"

Which is really strange, considering that those cries try to censor what others say themselves.

Emma Watson isn't going to feel like she can't pose (sort-of) topless because women on mumsnet might be disappointed with her.

The silencing tactics used by those who cry "censorship!" are much more likely to work, since they target random people, not rich celebrities.

YABCFU! The whole point of feminism is that WOMEN CAN CHOOSE TO WEAR WHAT THEY LIKE! Anyway she's got a top on, albeit a skimpy one.

The whole point of feminism is that WOMEN CAN CHOOSE TO WEAR WHAT THEY LIKE!

Emma Watson has chosen what to wear. People here choose to disagree. All works as it should.

But you have a pretty narrow view of feminism if you think its sole point is to enable women to wear skimpy tops.

But you have a pretty narrow view of feminism if you think its sole point is to enable women to wear skimpy tops.

Reducing a woman to one (so called) topless pic(out of many in the same photoshoot,out of many photoshoots) is what i took issue with.

VestalVirgin - Well, I don't think sole point of feminism is that it lets women wear skimpy tops.

I think the one of the major points of feminism is to give women freedom to choose. And that choice can be to dress modestly and wear hijab, without receiving abuse, or wear a thong and a mini dress, also without receiving abuse.

Have you actually read Vanity Fair? It does not promote itself as a women's magazine

What is your point? The typical reader of Vanity Fair is a woman aged around 45. That is the point I made originally to which you objected. It is, however, true. Whether or not Vanity Fair promotes itself as a women's magazine is irrelevant to that.

If a magazine is predominantly read by women it will be targeted at women, just as a magazine read predominantly by men will be targeted at men. That's just the way magazines work. They want to keep their readers so their content will be aimed at their existing readers. Mojo, for example, know that their typical reader is a 37 year old man with high disposable income. Their content is therefore targeted at that demographic.

Personally I find it rather tasteful and artistic