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Original poster

To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

999 replies

ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 26/02/2017 11:02

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic Sad

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

OP posts:
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TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 27/02/2017 10:22

Perhaps you could read the thread and learn why it is sometimes a big deal, maleficent?

venusinscorpio · 27/02/2017 10:27

The left are letting women down. Our rights are unimportant.

FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers · 27/02/2017 10:30

malificent7 wearing whatever clothes you want - not a big deal.

Changing body parts - a huge deal that comes alongside having to take lifelong hormones.

What most people have a problem with is the people who have no intention of changing anything gaining access to spaces and services for women on a whim.

That is damaging for women and for genuine trans people who do need access to services designed specifically for them, they have had different experiences and have different needs but will be forced to access services not suited to their lives due to the transactivists.

DelphineCormier · 27/02/2017 10:32

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/26/transgender-boy-wins-texas-girls-wrestling-championship/amp/

Women's rights being trampled on from both directions right there. Not only can trans women compete in the women's category, a woman undergoing treatment to become a man can also compete in the women's catagory Hmm

merrymouse · 27/02/2017 10:32

Similar arguments have been had over other conditions eg autism, being left handed, and are still being had over things like bipolar and schizophrenia - and now transgenderism.

Being Transgender and being intersex are different.

To be intersex is to have the external appearance of one sex, while actually having the internal sexual characteristics of the other, or to have sexual characteristics of both sexes. It is a condition that relates to people's sexual organs, not their brains. There is nothing subjective about being intersex.

Somebody who is transgender has a completely male or female body, but believes that their body isnt aligned with their identity. It is completely subjective.

BarbarianMum · 27/02/2017 10:32

But that is simply not true of biological sex.

Of course not. But I don't think the trans lobby are arguing that transwomen have XX sexual chromosomes, they are arguing that, in some people, these chromosomes have been mistranslated in some way resulting in a "female brain" in a male body.

I believe we are still waiting to see the evidence that supports this theory.

BarbarianMum · 27/02/2017 10:34

Of course they are. But they is an argument raging over whether transgenderism is a physical or psychological disorder.

Datun · 27/02/2017 10:54

barbarian

I read in the paper last week about a cure for anorexia, where a certain part of the brain is subjected to stimulus. I googled that part of the brain (long Latin name, can't remember) and came up with a study into transwomen, who are heterosexual, i.e. remain attracted to women.

All of the subjects tested had a male brain, there was no 'feminisation' at all. (I believe there are minor differences between male and female brains, not just the size.)

They did however have similar brain aspects which relate to body dysphoria.

If those trans-people who have body dysphoria, and it is by no means most of them, I don't think anyone would be surprised if there wasn't a part of the brain responsible for it. In the same way that chemical imbalances cause bipolar.

In fact, I would find it quite reassuring. It means that there is something demonstrably and measurably responsible for gender dysphoria. But the definition of a woman is not 'a man with body dysphoria'.

So if it was shown that trans-women are men with body dysphoria, not women, it could be treated and dealt with as such, without redefining what women means at all.

And as much trans activists try very hard to push the fact that transwomen have a female brain, I don't suppose for a minute they would be anywhere near as happy if it showed the opposite, but with a chemical difference the same as schizophrenia, bipolar, anorexia, etc.

Because there is an agenda here.

BeyondUnderthinking · 27/02/2017 10:54

Anyone who does think a mtt transperson has a "female brain" would do well to read the study I linked upthread (tl:dr - mtt brains are largely the same as male brains, not female ones)

BeyondUnderthinking · 27/02/2017 10:56

X post datun :)

mateysmum · 27/02/2017 10:57

DS has just told me that for the elections for his student union, of those who will be NUS delegates, 50% must be "self identifying women". nothing about 50% self identifying men.

So....potentially that would be NO women being elected then! Do the NUS not realise the lunacy of this rule?

Thankfully there are enough women standing for election to avoid the issue, but once again women's rights are being thrown under the bus. I despair.

Datun · 27/02/2017 10:58

beyond

Sorry!

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 27/02/2017 10:58

Thank you barbarian

shinynewusername · 27/02/2017 11:02

Agree Datun. The biologically essentialist approach of TAs will probably bite them in the bum in the end. In the meantime, it is stopping thousands of kids with gender dysphoria getting counselling because TAs claim that this is 'conversion therapy' Angry

Lweji · 27/02/2017 11:14

DS has just told me that for the elections for his student union, of those who will be NUS delegates, 50% must be "self identifying women". nothing about 50% self identifying men.

Don't most women self-identify as women anyway? Grin

PureConcentratedEvil · 27/02/2017 11:25

To clarify something about anorexia (something I know a little about having worked some years ago with girls with this condition - which is perhaps, why that pp analogy resonated with me)
The girls did not believe they biologically had "additional fat cells". Their belief in "being fat" was a subjective description of how they felt and believed they looked. It was a manifestation of discomfort with their bodies.

There was no claim to actually weighing 60kg when they weighed 40, just being "fat"

mateysmum · 27/02/2017 11:27

Lewji Grin Actually most women don't "self identify" we simply ARE!

It's the potential and illogical conclusion to such rules that gets the steam coming out of my ears.

Kikikaakaa · 27/02/2017 11:28

Oh gawd. No I don't self identify, I am!

VestalVirgin · 27/02/2017 11:30

So....potentially that would be NO women being elected then! Do the NUS not realise the lunacy of this rule?

This shit has beein going on for long enough that I now strongly suspect that yes, they do know exactly what consequences this can/will have, and that is the point of it.

It is an attack on women's rights.

Same as with homophobia, misogyny has never actually died, and now it has found a way to express itself.

The patriarchal sea flows around the dam of feminism and is re named the river trans, and we all are to pretend it is sweet water, but it is still the salty water of patriarchy sea.

It still harms women, and the attempts to "cure" homosexuals have been made acceptable once again.

I am not fooled, though.

Greypaw · 27/02/2017 11:33

I absolutely don't "self identify" as a woman. Like others on here, I don't identify with cis gender either, for all the reasons PPs have outlined, and because I hear the things that transwomen say makes them women, and I don't identify with those things either. I don't feel like a woman, and I don't feel like a man. I've no idea how to feel either of those things.

(In fact, as a gender-critical person, I feel the only logical way for me to now identify is as agender. Which, to me, means I don't feel like any gender at all. I just feel like a person).

WorkAccount · 27/02/2017 11:39

@IamFriedSpam
so what do you think the parents who are transing their 4 year olds are basing this upon?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 27/02/2017 11:39

It's an issue of semantics, I guess, Lweji. If someone asked me if I identify as a woman I would reply that I am a woman. There's no identifying about it. It's a material fact.

Saying that 50% of delegates must identify as women is demanding that any potential candidate must submit to the ideology that we all have a gender identity which I and many others here flatly deny.

PureConcentratedEvil · 27/02/2017 11:40

The patriarchal sea flows around the dam of feminism and is re named the river trans, and we all are to pretend it is sweet water, but it is still the salty water of patriarchy sea.
I actually love you for this poetruth. vestal

NiceMoustache · 27/02/2017 11:42

Self identify my arse. What trot. I'm not CIS. I will not accept that label and never will.