To be baffled by and disappointed with the amount of transphobia on MN?

[ShutTheFuckUpBarbara]

I know I'll get flamed for voicing my opinion on this, but I don't care.

I just don't understand why there is so much hatred for trans people on here.

Yes, some trans activists are extremists and no I don't agree with them, but should all other trans people suffer because of them?

I get that there are issues that need to be addressed, as highlighted by recent items in the news and recent threads (which prison should trans people be sent to, can a MTW be a girl guide leader and various others). I don't have a solution for these, but I feel that as a society we should work together to make it work, rather than just spout hatred and insults.

It is especially disappointing as there are a lot of people in the trans community suffering mental health issues, often as the result of how they are being treated, and MN is usually a safe haven for people with MH issues.

I used to enjoy reading the Feminism chat (or most of it anyway), now almost every thread on there is transphobic

Most of us here are women, a lot of us are from ethnic minorities, or have a disability, a lot of us have been discriminated against, we know what it feels like so why do it to others??

I would like to know from the people who call transphobe and bigot, do you know how babies are made? Do you accept that it takes 2 people, one of each of the biological sexes? So how can biology be irrelevant? If sex is an irrelevant construct, how will you reproduce?
Do you know that sex is a protected characteristic, and that this protection is why you can't be fired from your job for being pregnant? Do you realise that if sex gives way to gender as a protected characteristic, and men can be pregnant too, you will lose this hard won right? Same for equal pay.
I don't hate anyone, but I don't want to turn around in the shower at the gym and find Danielle Muscato's cock next to me, or have my private bodily functions used as wank fodder by an autogynephile in the next lavatory. So I'm saying no. Just. No.

*who, not work

OurBlanche - re your "definitions":

OurBlanche Sun 26-Feb-17 16:27:25
I thought I'd given it a good try Beyond

"female = woman"

No. Female doesn't equal woman because a young female is called a girl whereas an adult female is called a woman.

Hence we come to the dictionary definition Woman = Adult human female. (Which you could have looked up before making up the jumble of non-definitions below):

"Trans / woman by "gender choice" = woman but not female.
Woman = social construct, being female, or having the appearance of being a female""

(1) There is no such thing as "woman but not female". See (again) the dictionary definition of the word 'woman' = Adult human female.

(2) "Woman" is not a social construct but a biological category of the human species, which happens to be sexually dimorphic like most mammal species.

Adult female chicken = Hen

Adult female horse = Mare

Adult female cattle = Cow

AND.... < drum roll >

Adult human female = Woman.

Well, we have started here. MNHQ have allowed these debates, given us a platform to discuss the issues. That in turn has fed into the wider field, we know more, we can/have gone on various marches, are more clued up on what is happening, are finding the right routes to shout our own message.

We can defend female speakers against No Platforming; respond to media outlets, publicly take them to task; contact our MPs, keep them on their toes. There are probably as many places to shout as there are readers here.

All the usual, fairly hum drum things that go along with being politicised about any issue!

This is one of the few places on the internet you can have a free discussion about the feminist issues without being shouted down as a "terf" and called transphobi. Thank goodness for mumsnet!

Nobody's being called a bigot for saying this woman cheated black people out of positions that were rightfully theirs.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/25/rachel-dolezal-not-going-stoop-apologise-grovel

Cote I was answering the question that was asked. To find a definition of woman that included females and trans women.

I'll happily add the word 'adult' to my attempt. But I think that

(2) "Woman" is not a social construct but a biological category of the human species, which happens to be sexually dimorphic like most mammal species.

is the bit that is going to have to give, if you want to make 'woman' more inclusive whilst retaining 'female' as the biological absolute.

Of course, all that is academic if you do not want to broaden woman to reflect 21st century mores.

I agree Jelly. I love that we can freely discuss this topic here. IRL I've lost multiple friends because I have a transsexual son and I'm gender critical at the same time. Apparently I don't support him and should 'get educated'

Still waiting for evidence of transphobia on mumsnet feminist boards

OP, YANBU. I, too, am dismayed by the all-too-frequent transphobic threads on MN, and indeed on this thread. Someone very close to me is trans, and MN does make me wonder what all the people who are perfectly nice to them in public are actually saying / thinking in private. It's not a nice feeling.

Draylon I think that would depend on what organisations you are currently connected to, or become connected to.

Maria Miller is/was wrong - if you read what she says she consistently uses gender instead of sex, rendering much of what she says moot!

right could you please point out the transphobic posts on this thread?

I've been asking and asking and no one will provide me with the adequate evidence.

right someone very close to me is also trans. They agree with the things you class as transphobic, as do I.

Yet another thread where transactivists can't define 'woman' at the billionth time of asking. 'Person who makes the sandwiches?' perhaps

How is it so bloody difficult to be able to define what you are campaigning for?

As for 'cis' it's not mean old cis-women clinging onto privilege, it's pissed of women refusing to bow down to a gender hierarchy which coincidentally shoves us at the bottom of the pile. Do the people who so right-on-ly say 'cis-women' also casually say cis-black? Try it. I dare you.

As for Lian Huntley. For anyone to hard of thinking to see the problem, he has form for sexual violence against women and girls (can't believe this needs to be said) and is a Cat A prisoner. There's nowhere to house a Cat A prisoner in the female estate. Not even Rose West is Cat A. There is the human right issue of keeping Lian in permanent solitary confinement vs exposing the rest of the female population to a violent sex offender with a penis (and presumably no access to contraception). And you can't shove him is a secure psychiatric hospital just because he's trans, you bigots.

OP, YANBU. I, too, am dismayed by the all-too-frequent transphobic threads on MN, and indeed on this thread. Someone very close to me is trans, and MN does make me wonder what all the people who are perfectly nice to them in public are actually saying / thinking in private. It's not a nice feeling.

What here have you seen that you consider to be transphobic?

Maybe, if we all agree to hold up specific examples and calmly discuss what is/is not phobic, we could have a more useful debate.

There are many posters here who have close connections to transpeople. Some of them will be the people you think are being transphobic. So there must be something in the language used, the concepts being discussed, that causes a disconnect.

Just one example would be a good start!

Yanbu OP

It used to really upset me - now I just hide the threads . Very disappointing

Blanche I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the lack of 'evidence' of the feminist board's supposed transphobia. Anyone would think there wasn't any...

I, too, am dismayed by the all-too-frequent transphobic threads on MN

Yes, several of you are dismayed, angry and upset by this transphobic threads, of which you say there are an endless amount. And yet none of you have been able to point us to a single one of them.

It's weird, isn't it?

I could name change and post something!! There are plenty of intemperate posts to choose from!!

Mmm!

OnlyLivingBoy

It's a bit like the people who come on here saying that they are shocked by all the man hating posts, and posts indicating that women donmt want equality they want superiority.

I'm often derided for asking for examples-because there are lost so them apparently and I am being "goady" for not seeing them. I think "transphobia" is going the same way. It's a classic school bully technique. "Well, if you can't see what you've done wrong that's your problem. I''m certainly not going to tell you!"

rightsaidfrederickII

Could we start with a discussion about the difference between Transphobic and Transcritical?

I'm happy to start a new thread just to crash around that idea!

OP, YANBU. I, too, am dismayed by the all-too-frequent transphobic threads on MN
Whole threads? Or is that questioning the current trans narrative and insisting that women's rights should be preserved is by definition transphobic? I have a trans person in my immediate family, who I love dearly, but that doesn't oblige me to swallow whole the nonsense that is spouted by some TRAs.

Sorry- "lots of them"