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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 13:20

Very good point Dorcas, elderly dogs don't necessarily calm down as they age, some get less tolerant and more irritable.

TheLegendOfBeans · 26/02/2017 13:24

Sorry in advance for not having rtft but please please give this dog to a family or person that can give it the life it needs.

You absolutely cannot keep this dog; it's size is a threat in itself but coupled with a screwed up start, it's a risk that's just too big to take.

I don't think this is a decision you will take lightly but please be aware that the consequences of not acting before the baby arrives are too big to think about.

And it's not the animal's fault; sometimes it's just the way it is.

Winteriscominginnit · 26/02/2017 13:26

I don't have a solution as such but to those saying they think people who value other animals over humans (we are animals too remember) are sociopaths... nope I'd say they just don't believe humans are superior to other animals. We got lucky evolutionwise but we're not special, nor are we worth more than any of the other species on earth, or in the universe... it's a very human mindset, this misplaced superiority complex and the cause of no end of conflict. That said, I hope you find a solution op, very difficult situation Flowers

DorcasthePuffin · 26/02/2017 13:28

Yes, Fingalswave and this was a dog who - though with some behavioural issues - had lived happily for many years in the most chaotic house I have ever entered. It just got too much for him in his old age.

sabzii · 26/02/2017 13:30

I would have him PTS.

He's a risk to others if he escapes. There's no place in society for aggressive dogs, fear aggressive or otherwise.

I think it's foolish to even consider keeping a dog of this temperament in the same house as a new baby.

early30smum · 26/02/2017 13:32

OP I feel for you, I really do, but in your position I would PTS.

The reasons being:

  1. however much work you do to prepare your dog, even the calmest dogs with no issues can be unpredictable and yours does have issues. You have literally NO way of knowing if the worst will happen.

  2. you say your dog can jump up as high as your arms- so if baby is in a sling, he/she is at exactly the right height to be pulled/torn from you if out on a walk. Will you physically be strong enough to get the dog off it that happens?

  3. you mention going for walks and not being able to use a pram with the dog- when my 2 were little doing for a walk with the pram was one of my greatest joys. It helped them sleep, I could look at them, it gave me a place underneath to stash shopping etc, gave me exercise and I wasn't hurting my back (I know not everyone feels this but I could never wear a sling without my back hurting). If you are out walking with the dog and have baby in a sling, and the worst happens (meet another dog and they fight or whatever) you are going to be in a very vulnerable position with a baby strapped to you.

  4. babies are hard work. You might have one that is a poor sleeper, and sleep deprivation makes you do silly things. It only takes one time of being exhausted and forgetting to shut the dog in a separate room for disaster to occur.

  5. the whole situation will be stressful. You'll constantly be worried about both the baby and the dog. Worried you've shut him out properly, worried he'll get through, worried baby will upset him etc etc. When baby does sleep during the day, I doubt you will be able to sleep yourself as you'll be on edge constantly thinking about the dog. This will only make you more tired and stressed.

  6. hopefully you will have a lovely straightforward birth. But if you don't, and you have stitches/c section etc you will be physically sore for a long time, dealing with a large, heavy dog is not going to be what you need.

  7. you probably will make friends with other mums with babies who you'll probably want to invite over for coffee etc. It'll be almost impossible with the dog.

  8. this is your first baby. You will want to enjoy every minute as much as you can, be free to wander round the house with him/her, not worry about not being able to go into certain rooms because of the dog etc, not worry if the dog needs attention at the same time as baby etc.

Sorry to be so negative and I appreciate it's a horrid situation, but I really think you should PTS. Flowers

ImmuneToWhatever · 26/02/2017 13:34

It's probably been mentioned but I don't have the battery power on my phone to RTFT but you can get 1:1 dog walkers.

They charge more, natch. But they exist.

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 13:39

Early, your post sums up a lot of my beyond the obvious safety concerns. I do find my dog stressful and I know I will be highly stressed about him around the baby, while simultaneously feeling guilty about shutting the dog away and the impact on his life. I know a newborn will be hard, and having him around will be 10 times harder. But the thought of giving him away or having him put to sleep breaks by heart, it feels so very very selfish and like I'm failing him. Keeping him could work, or we could all just end up very stressed and miserable Confused

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 26/02/2017 13:45

Please don't put down your dog because you chose to have a baby! You got him at 8 months - some of the behaviour is down to you, surely?!

early30smum · 26/02/2017 13:48

Flowers you are not being selfish but PTS or finding him a suitable new home. You may only have one chance at being a mum (hopefully not) and you need to put your baby and yourself first. You've invested so much time and energy into this dog, who otherwise would have been PTS or worse years ago. Don't beat yourself up. Stress is not good for you or the baby and you need to focus on you two. Take care OP and let us know what you decide to do. But if that is PTS it is the right decision and you have no reason to feel guilty at all.

HerBluebiro · 26/02/2017 13:48

Well done for thinking this through now rather than later. Or when too late.

Enjoy the rest of the time you have with him. Congratulations on giving him a life almost noone else would.

Congratulations on doing all that you can to minimise the risk he poses such that he could continue living, when others would not.

The time has come to euthanise him. Before your child is born. I'm so sorry you have to make this choice. But you know you do. Your child has to be the most precious thing in the world to you.

I'd suggest flippantly allowing those who would criticise this choice to take him. But you know as well as I do that they wouldn't be as careful as you have been. Would not make the hard choices.

This isn't an inconvenient dog. This is a dangerous dog. I'm so sorry. You have some months left. Enjoy them.

vjg13 · 26/02/2017 13:51

I think deep down you feel it is unrealistic to keep the dog.

My neighbour took on a dog that under normal circumstances could never have been rehomed. It was a large guarding breed which he had a lot of experience with. It was a child free home with a retired couple and he went running with it. It was always muzzled and only he dealt with it. The dog was able to live out its life with him and looked happy and healthy. I think with full disclosure it may be possible to find a new home especially if you start now. Good luck.

Trifleorbust · 26/02/2017 13:53

The time has come to euthanise him. Before your child is born. I'm so sorry you have to make this choice. But you know you do. Your child has to be the most precious thing in the world to you.

Or the time to consider this was before she tried for a baby?

I can't believe the number of posters who would happily put down a poorly socialised dog. It is not the dog's fault his owners decided to get pregnant.

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 13:53

**Today 13:45 Trifleorbust

Please don't put down your dog because you chose to have a baby! You got him at 8 months - some of the behaviour is down to you, surely?!

No. No it's not. Bad breeding, abuse, five homes in 8 months and total lacking of socialisation by the previous owners caused this poor dog's problems. It's not him fault and it's not my fault, and I strongly suggest any implication that it is.

OP posts:
Nutgirl · 26/02/2017 13:55

We had to re-home our cat when DS1 became mobile. Cat was 8 and we'd had him since he was kitten so he was a real member of the family and I felt awful about letting him go but we had no choice. When DS1 was a baby the cat mainly left him alone and carried on with his business but as soon as DS1 started crawling he started to bother the cat, pulling his tail and trying to grab him etc. Even though we watched them like a hawk you cannot watch them all the time and DS1 was scratched a few times. Cat turned from a placid, sociable and friendly boy to a scratchy, nervous one who started to stand his ground. He scratched DS1 once across his face, narrowly missing his eye and that's when we knew we couldn't risk it. And this was a cat - not an enormous dog. The cat was miserable because every time DS1 was in the room he was turfed out and he started to poo in the house etc because he was stressed. We found him a nice old man to live with who had just lost his wife and his cat and so we knew he would get loads of attention and love which at that time we couldn't give him because of looking after a toddler. Admittedly it was much easier for me to re-home a loving friendly cat than it would be for you to re-home your dog because of the issues you've outlined, but I guess what I'm saying is that you cannot possibly risk a baby with an animal. It's just too dangerous. I am sorry to say it but I think that PTS might be your only option.

LaurieMarlow · 26/02/2017 13:56

My god, but people are arseholes.

It's obvious how hard the OP has tried with this dog and she's given him a life he wouldn't have had otherwise. It's also apparent she didn't get just get pregnant on a whim, this is a much tried for, much wanted baby.

She's clearly agonising over a difficult decision and a few dickish posters are getting their kicks from telling her she's selfish. It's disgusting.

Trifleorbust · 26/02/2017 13:57

Well, sorry, OP, that is what I think.

Please at least try to get him rehomed. It may be more feasible than you think.

littledinaco · 26/02/2017 14:00

The dogs behaviour is not in any way your fault OP.

Would you consider getting a behavioural specialist in to assess him and give their opinion. May make making a decision easier.

Trifleorbust · 26/02/2017 14:00

It's also apparent she didn't get just get pregnant on a whim, this is a much tried for, much wanted baby.

True, but by the time she started trying it must have been obvious that the dog would never be able to live with a small baby? Surely that was the time to look into finding another owner?

Anyway, I'm out.

TheLegendOfBeans · 26/02/2017 14:01

Well said Lemondrop

Reading the full thread I now see he's not really rehomeable in his present state.

May i ask how far along are you? I only ask as if it's early days you have some more time to potentially enquire with agencies such as the Blue Cross re: rehoming with an experienced individual.

However, as 1000 posters have said, should you take the heartbreaking decision to PTS, well, I'm sure that dog has had much happier a life than anyone would've guessed he would.

Normally I find threads like these incredibly frustrating, but I don't believe you're irresponsible. It's just one of those shit things that life throws at us. X

Bottlesoflove · 26/02/2017 14:01

Having worked in paediatrics and seen life changing injuries to small children from seemingly trusted family pets, I would not even dream of having an aggressive dog in the same building as my child. Every time I hear the news and hear another baby has been killed by a family dog it makes my blood run cold. This is a no-brainier as far as I am concerned, but I think you know this. Your dog will have a peaceful passing, but imagine the pain, fear and suffering a child experiences when getting mauled. Can't even think about it without feeling sick, it is just not worth the risk. Would you have a person with anger problems and prone to violence living in your house with a child? Probably not, so I always struggle to understand why people think it is ok to have large animals with sharp teeth with similar issues around their children.

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 14:02

Ok Trifle, so when I took him on seven years ago, instead of thinking I could help a troubled young dog, I should have turned him down on the grounds that I might want to have children in the next 10 years? I thought he could be helped, turned out he couldn't. I had no reason to think he'd still have problems at this point.

But by your argument, if so wasn't 100% positive I was able to offer I'm a home for life, the responsible thing to do would have been to have turned him down then?

Ok. Maybe I should have done that. Then he would have been put to sleep aged 8 months, like his litter mate was. Yeah, I see how that would have been better for him. Hmm

OP posts:
DorcasthePuffin · 26/02/2017 14:04

Trifleorbust, OP took on the dog when he was small and his problems not fully apparent. She has worked tirelessly to give her dog the best possible life, but couldn't have known 8 years ago that this would be where she would end up. Do you really think that she should now decide not to have children because the dog came first? Confused. If so, I would suggest that is a very, very unusual POV.

tinymeteor · 26/02/2017 14:04

This is incredibly hard but I think PTS might be the right thing. I'm so sorry.

Staying sane through the sleepless months means accepting help from family, friends, babysitters, to give you support and a break. None of that is possible if your dog can't cope with new people. It would be so very hard on you, and probably too much for anyone to cope with. You should be able to enjoy the baby, and relax when they sleep, not feel that as soon as you get them down it's the dog's turn. And a dog that is cooped up all day for the baby's safety will be unhappy at best, jealous and unpredictable at worst.

Heart goes out to you OP, but I think you know you've given this dog all you can, and 8 years is a great life.

Trifleorbust · 26/02/2017 14:05

No, OP. Having taken him on, you should have thought this scenario through before trying for a baby. Please don't get snippy with me. I think you are between a rock and a hard place, yes, but it's of your own making and not the fault of your poor, abused dog. Yes, you have given him a lot, but a dog is for life. You needed to think about him before getting pregnant, again only in my view.