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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
Kahlua4me · 26/02/2017 14:41

We had to make the same hard decision when I was pregnant with dc1, and that was from having our dog as a puppy.

We could manage his personality ourselves and knew when to keep him away from others etc but as my pregnancy progressed he became more and more protective of me. Once dc1 arrived he would not let any one near him, or even the pram if we were out walking.

We decided to try to rehome him and found a lovely man who lived on his own, no kids around etc. It was hard for us but so much better than the risk of what might happen. Once dc arrive you then have lots more people in the house, including other kids and I couldn't manage the thought of what could happen, and our gorgeous dog would have found it far too stressful and busy.

Youngest dc is now 10 and we have a new puppy who is wonderful, and very much a member of our family. Dc and their friends are also old enough to understand how to be around him.

Good luck with your decision.

PacificDogwod · 26/02/2017 14:42

Very difficult situation and I won't pretend that I have any kind of magic answer.

We have a rescue greyhound who came to us aged 20 months, I know v little about his early life, my youngest child was 5 years when we got him, he has now been with us for 2 years.

Having a crate was a god send in the early weeks/months and we still use it when we have visitors etc (we put it away for every day because it was just for frigging huge!)

I think from what you are writing you could very successfully introduce a new baby to your dog - you seem to know what to do and how to do it. The crate could be a good place when the situation arises that you need to know that he is secured. Frankly, I'd worry more about the mobile baby/toddler - young children move and sound very differently from older children/adults and do unpredictable things which some dogs struggle with.

If you wanted to introduce a crate, do it NOW.
The crate needs to be big enough that he can stand up with room to spare and turn around. It needs to be very comfortable and cosy. We covered ours with a blanket to make it more den-like. Initially the door was always open, and I threw treats into it randomly, so he got in to the habit of checking the crate every now and then. Once he was happy with the crate and sought it out himself, we closed the door over night (after a particularly gruesome diarrhoea event...). He loves his crate - it's his safe haven.
We have/had strict rules for the DCs that the crate was for the dog and the dog only, they were not to approach him in there and they were not to play in the crate when the dog was not in.

I think you have done a marvellous thing, looking after him as you have and helping him with his various issues Thanks

Please bear in mind that 'supervising' young children and dogs does not work and is not enough. I have been in situations in which I have 'supervised' just fine, and still a snap happened. Kids move fast and in unpredictable patterns, and our DHound can get anxious quite unpredictably (the behaviourist was baffled too...). We luffs our daft hound, but like yours, he is a big dog with sharp teeth and there is no point in pretending that there is no risk.

On balance, I (and the DSs) think he is bringing more to the family than he demands.

Oh, and don't rehome him. If you cannot keep him, it would be a kindness to have him euthanised IMO SadThanks

JoeyJoeJoeJuniorShabadu · 26/02/2017 14:45

You should keep him and continue working on training him.
i'm sure your baby will be fine.
also - draw up a rota for how you and your husband can make sure he gets the three walks a day he needs.
you can always forgo any holidays and extras for the dog's training and care. just cut down, so the dog get what training he needs.
he might only be around for another decade or so anyway.

Huskylover1 · 26/02/2017 14:45

We were so sceptical & didn't think it would work at all but the lady who runs it worked 1-2-1 with our dog & then gradually introduced him. Within weeks he was running around happy as Larry with up to 30 other dogs!

You have been very lucky with this. The boarding/day care licence specifies that dogs who show even the slightest aggression, must not be taken in, as this poses a threat to the other dogs in your care.

Can you tell us which 2 breeds he is a mix of?

MontePulciana · 26/02/2017 14:47

I'd keep him until your baby is mobile at least. It'll be easier to introduce them earlier as your baby won't be tugging on its ears and teasing. You might find your dog adores him/her and has full trust in the child. It's very rare dogs snap and it's preventable most of the time. I wouldn't PTS.

Huskylover1 · 26/02/2017 14:48

he might only be around for another decade or so anyway

No chance! He's 8 already. Op hasn't said which 2 breeds he is a mix of, but she has said 2 guard breeds. A Rottweiler's life expectancy is 8-10 years. A Doberman is 10-13 years. In this context, he is already "elderly".

Hidingtonothing · 26/02/2017 14:48

Don't know whereabouts you are OP but if it happens to be West Midlands I can pass you on to an excellent behaviouralist, let me know if you want details x

MontePulciana · 26/02/2017 14:49

We have a Staffordshire bt cross. She handles our 2 year old monster with ease. I find bigger dogs do handle kids much better in general.

BeaveredBadgered · 26/02/2017 14:49

Very sorry you've got such a tough decision to make OP Flowers
Being ill whilst pregnant is stressful enough, especially with something as horrendous as HG.

I don't think you were unreasonable at all to have taken your dog on 8 years ago not knowing when and if you might have kids and how long your dog would be with you. Planning ahead is one thing but life is so unpredictable it's not always feasible. I'm surprised you've been given a telling off by PP. some people just aren't that nice I guess.

I would probably agree that the fairest thing for your dog is to PTS. I had my first baby last year and even though she's been an easy baby in lots of ways it's still been challenging and stressful at times. I think it would be difficult to keep them separate and unfair to your dog to suddenly have to adapt to a brand set up at home. It's common to be on high alert for risk and danger after having a baby and it might not be the best for your mental state to have to constantly be on top of where the dog is and if the situation is safe.

farkoff · 26/02/2017 14:55

I honestly can't get my head around why anyone would even consider having an animal that behaves one this way anywhere near a baby.

JoeyJoeJoeJuniorShabadu · 26/02/2017 14:55

No chance! He's 8 already. Op hasn't said which 2 breeds he is a mix of, but she has said 2 guard breeds. A Rottweiler's life expectancy is 8-10 years. A Doberman is 10-13 years. In this context, he is already "elderly".

Ok - well, if it 5 years, that's not long at all. They can enjoy the time they have left with him.

ElspethFlashman · 26/02/2017 14:56

Please bear in mind that 'supervising' young children and dogs does not work and is not enough. I have been in situations in which I have 'supervised' just fine, and still a snap happened.

Totally agree with this. Dogs react far faster than we do.

PageStillNotFound404 · 26/02/2017 14:57

Hidingtonothing do their initials happen to begin with EJ? If so, they're one of the best in the business - they recommended our behaviourist when we first took on PageDog, and gave us some fabulous tips via email while we waited for the more local person's availability.

fenneltea · 26/02/2017 14:59

I've owned dogs for many years and love them, but in your situation I'd be euthanising.

Being mentally unstable IS a health issue he stands little chance of finding a suitable home and as an older dog rehoming or kenn eling will prove stressful for him.
Id make an appointment for the vet to come to your home and spoil him rotten with his favourite treats and let him have the dignity of being spared the trauma of a possible miserable future life. [Flowers]

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 15:01

Thanks Hiding but I'm in London

OP posts:
Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 15:01

Joey "I'm sure your baby will be fine"

How can you possibly know this when the op who has lived with the dog and trained him for eight years cannot be sure herself?

That is the entire point of this thread. As op pointed out, it is far from clear cut. He might be fine, but given his history and current behaviour, it is only sensible to have serious concerns and discuss it at length and seek the advice of professionals. To just assume all will be fine is highly irresponsible.

And as the op has pointed out, they have already gone to great lengths with courses and behaviorists etc to alter dog's behaviour, it is more a case of management now than improvement.

JoeyJoeJoeJuniorShabadu · 26/02/2017 15:03

But she wants to keep the dog. therefore i don't doubt they will make every effort to make sure the baby is safe.

Skooba · 26/02/2017 15:13

I don't think a behaviourist can save the day - there will always be that risk, which is not worth taking.

Try for rehoming by a proper dog shelter - so they will check out new home etc. There are some very kindhearted people out there. Someone might have a remote in the country with no kids or neighbours home for your dog.
If that fails I think you have to ahve him put down.

Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 15:14

Joey Yes that goes without saying as the op has already made huge efforts on the dog's behalf. But sometimes making every effort is not enough. Constant supervision doesn't work. The dog may be miserable with less attention and having to be separated from the rest of the family. This is a powerful animal we are talking about, who has been described as "pushy" and "needy" who paces and whines when he wants attention, so his situation is unlikely to improve with the arrival of a baby.

fenneltea · 26/02/2017 15:23

The op may well want to keep the dog, but you've got to put the dogs needs before the owners wants, and to be continually stressed and unable to be exercised properly won't be in the dog's best interests.

I had my horse pts last year for health issues, I had a nightmare last night where I'd sold her and she was miserable in a home that ill treated her, I desperately wanted to help her and couldn't. I woke up and remembered she was dead and it was actually a relief.

There are fates worse than death for many animals, we are sadly over populated with unwanted horses, cats and dogs and there is no shame in seeing euthanasia as a viable option. Life at all costs isn't always in the animals best interests, and it is often those most involved in animal welfare who can also see that euthanasia is sometimes the kindest thing.

BertrandRussell · 26/02/2017 15:23

I hate i when people who claim to be animal lovers would rather an animal was alive and miserable than pts. That's not loving animals, it's ridiculous furbaby sentimentality.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 26/02/2017 15:32

💐 I'm sorry you've had to endure some nasty posts.

I wouldn't rehome him unless it was with someone I already knew & where I would know what was happening to him. The first person that took him might not cope & he might get passed on & again & again, ending up god knows where. I'd rather PTS than take any chance he could be abused.

As your dog is lovely with you & others he knows, I think I'd give it a chance to work out. I'd buy the dog gates - same as the baby gates, but taller. You wouldn't need to have him in a separate room at all times, especially not when you and DH are both home. There are lots of things you could do to feel more assured such as a soft muzzle &/or having him on a lead. He's getting older, by the time your baby is a toddler he might not be here through natural causes or he might be fine with the baby. PTS isn't a 'now or never' option. I definitely wouldn't ether rehome or PTS until the baby is actually here.

I hope the H goes away soon.

MarvelMummy13 · 26/02/2017 15:34

I think you answered your own question with he doesn't warn or growl he just lunges and could easily reach into my arms if I was holding my baby. I think you know this doggy isn't safe enough to be around babies.

The risks are ridiculously high and I don't think anyone will let you 'test' their child like someone suggested earlier. I have a child and I wouldn't risk it. I'm so sorry you're going through this I can't imagine how you're feeling but even if the dog is okay for now what happens when he/she is older and your baby is a toddler .

I'll give you an example I have a very close family member with a dog who's the softest dog ever, treated like a baby, can be picked up, good on walks and with people and other animals. But I still don't trust her alone with a baby she hasn't been brought up around babies and you just don't know,. A few years ago she snapped very nastily at my daughter , She was walking past and my toddler pulled her tail (obviously daughter was told off for this but she was a toddler and didn't know). I think if she had continued the dog would've bitten her you could tell she scared me. Babies take up a lot of time too and theres no guarantee you'll be able to bring the dog in on a night i remember up to about 4 months baby was with me all the time . When I was downstairs she was in her moses basket next to us until we went to bed and she came up with us so there was actually no baby free zone around me for a while

Btw congratulations on your pregnancy and best of luck

sycamore54321 · 26/02/2017 15:35

I think you know what you need to do OP. I was particularly struck by the fact that you haven't managed to introduce the dog to your MIL and SILs in all the years you have been with your partner. If you can't manage him for occasional visits from adult women, then I really can't see how he could cope with the constant presence of a new growing baby.

I am shocked at some of the posts on this thread. I assumed that @JoeyJoe's post was sarcasm - surely it can't be sincere? I also agree that human life and safety, especially babies, must always be prioritised over animals.

OP some posters have given stories of their dog surprising them by "adoring" the new baby. While this is better than the alternative, in your case, I don't think it is a hugely desired outcome either. That would make your baby someone the dog needs to protect from other people and animals and could even increase his agreesion.

It is a tough choice for you but I think you know what the right choice is.

AnoiseAnnoysanOyster · 26/02/2017 15:54

What will you do with your visitors wanting to come round and see the baby? Also it's common to meet up with other mums and babies if you do NCT/antenatal classes. Birthday parties never going to have those at home? Child's friends round? It goes way beyond just having a newborn.

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