to think under these new rules no one will qualify for PIP .....the replacement for DLA.

[HelenaDove]

Looks like the ruling has been created retrospectively in a hurry.....a bit like they did with workfare.

People with epilepsy and dementia arent going to qualify Utterly disgusting.

www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/tory-ministers-have-rewritten-the-law-to-deny-increased-disability-benefit-payments-to-more-than-150000-people/ar-AAngTpD?li=AA54rU

Disgrace. Not surprised though.

Not ignoring the other elements but are they just ignorantly hoping people with dementia will just forget they haven't gotten money this period?

Shockingly I could imagine someone saying this in a meeting a la 'the thick of it'

Will there be more ppl taking risks by staying in jobs that they arent fit to do anymore now help is being taken away.

Could we see more ppl trying to hide their conditions.

Is it possible we could see another Glasgow bin lorry type scenario. I know what he did was wrong but surely ppl having the choice of taking the risk of being refused an illness/disability benefit or trying to stay in a job they are no longer fit to do increases the chance of the possibility of this or something similar happening again.

38cody people like you make my blood boil.

With all due respect if you think your friends rocked up with a private diagnosis and got some extra money thrown at them you are completely ignorant as to how this system works.

Oh and with hidden disabilities the clue is in the fucking word. Hidden

If you haven't been in their home for days at a time. 24hrs through the night, then you are talking shit. Even if you have 'holidayad' together

I hope your friends (who else do you know for years and holiday with?) catch on that you are so scathing of their disabled children (who knew, disabled kids can get into college too!)

I bet you don't say anything to their face either do you? Nah, your type just bitches behind their backs and bitterly stews that they don't
get any extra'.

I may be missing something here, but the article seems to say that they have refused tribunal requests to change the points awarded for distress when travelling and needing prompting etc to take medication. I couldn't find anything that says they're changing existing regulations.

"Do I assume that people with variable conditions just can't claim PIP because on some days they don't score enough points?"

If they are affected by their condition for more than 50% of the time, they're still entitled to those points. At assessment, they are invariably asked how many days a week they can't do this, that or the other. Say 3, they lose those points, say 4, and they get them.

I have won appeals with clients with uncontrolled epilepsy by establishing the point that, because the risk of a seizure is ever-present, they can never cook, bathe, travel unaccompanied etc. I've also used the difficulties people suffer when in a post-ictal state, eg extreme drowsiness, disorientation etc and succeeded in having points awarded for communication etc.

The real problem with PIP (and ESA) is that the questions don't really reflect the regulations, so people aren't likely to give answers that will help them get the best results. No-one should ever complete the forms without reference to the "descriptors" and the regulation that says you can't do something unless you can do it safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a reasonable timescale.

Plus, of course, cutting the Legal Services Commission funding that used to keep lots of benefit advisers in jobs, so people could get help with the forms.

My mother has recently had to fill in forms for moving over to PIP. She is 65, has MS, heart failure, lymphodema and diabetes. She is deaf, blind in one eye and has 30% vision in the other, she can't stand unaided, she can just about shuffle to the loo with a walker but any further needs a wheelchair, she used to self catheterise but now my dad has had to start doing this for her because she doesn't have the dexterity anymore, she is under SALT because her speech is slurred and she's on so many meds she falls asleep sometimes mid sentence. She relies on my dad for everything. Her forms were accompanied by supporting letters from her GP, MS nurse and consultant neurologist and yet she STILL has to attend an interview with one of the PIP assessors to prove she is 'disabled enough'. If they are undecided on a case like hers what chance does anybody else have????

I am thinking of applying for pip, have been suffering with various problems for years but seem to be affecting me much worse and had a recent ( last autumn ) diagnosis of severe OCD and also BPD.

So I have fibromyalgia, sciatica, arthritis, anxiety, depression, OCD and BPD and take 34 tablets each day.
I probably won't get it but Joe Bloggs down the road will say he has a bad back and get it, really winds me up.

I use this example as was recently at the doctors and heard one man telling another how to fiddle the system by saying his back was bad as " there is no proof "

Just to add, I'm 39, it's horrible to be in so much pain all the time and I worry about everything.

I probably won't get it but Joe Bloggs down the road will say he has a bad back and get it, really winds me up.

No he won't.

Any fraud carried out woux need a hell of a lot more effort than that. There are people with cancer, heart disease, epilepsy and blindness etc. being turned down or not rewarded what they should be.

It is not easy to get and the minuscule amount of fraud cases don't justify making it this hard for people to claim.

I would rethink your attitude too. If you are lucky enough to be able to jump through all the fiery hoops of PIP you too will most likely be seen as a 'scrounger'.

As you have all arms, legs and mainly invisible disabilities you will get it from anyone you tell.

'Pfft, she's a bit depressed. Reckons she's got all these 'invisible' illnesses. I've seen her fine the shops and she smiled once, so she ain't that disabled! Fraud.'

'

The qualifiers need to be clarified and the form needs instructions in plain english. Its confusing on how you fill the form out because they are looking for people to use a secret code to communicate the issues.

I also think that its all fine and dandy to refuse people for PIP but what are the government going to do about the discrimination against disabled persons applying for jobs and being refused because of their disability? I assume I can sue them because the government have said you are able yet the employer is saying you aren't.

This is not what is acceptable to me. Those who are disabled need to be supported.

People will fluctuating conditions already struggle. I have a friend with narcolepsy. She was turned down (and had to wait a YEAR to appeal) on the basis that her condition (ie when she falls to the ground) is "predictably unpredictable".

Your logic is reasonable but this scenario already exists with ESA. An employer can terminate a disabled employee's contract if they can no longer perform their duties and work due to their disability. The very same person who has been deemed unfit to work, usually by an occupational health doctor, can then undergo an assessment for ESA and fail. They will be found fit for work and have to claim JSA, even though medical professionals have reviewed them and decided they are so sick their employment should be terminated.

Sometimes they can even be found unfit for work by a certain company paid by their employer to assess them and then be found fit to work by the SAME company when the company is paid by the DWP to assess them.

It's miraculous how that second walk into the building can cure folks...

Her forms were accompanied by supporting letters from her GP, MS nurse and consultant neurologist and yet she STILL has to attend an interview with one of the PIP assessors to prove she is 'disabled enough'.

This is putting people into an impossible position as well. My daughter's consultant and our GP's surgery have signs up saying that they will no longer do letters of support for people making DLA/PIP claims. I asked about it out of curiosity when my relative had to apply (though she was under the special rules for terminal illness) and the GP said they had taken that decision as they were spending hours sorting letters and reports for people and then they were being completely disregarded bythe DWP and they were only interested in their assessors report. They will only provide a report when approached by the DWP.

However, the DWP have now cottoned onto this and they no longer ask for medical details in most cases. They say the onus is on the claimant to provide it. So for anyone at my surgery they have no choice, but to fail and wait to appeal because the tribunal judges WILL ask for medical evidence from the noted professionals.

I wish all of the people who bleat about the fraud (which is tiny) would look at the cost of appeals. I think it's disgusting that there is no transparency about the cost of these appeals. I attended with my narcoleptic friend - how much does it cost to hire a lawyer, a doctor and a welfare rights specialist to sit on a panel all day making decisions? The place we went had 14 rooms, so multiply that cost by 14... We were there for around 3 hours and we saw ONE person fuming that they'd lost at appeal stage. Every single other person came out having 'won'. That was the fourth time she'd been to that stage (ESA twice, DLA once, PIP once) and said how busy it was and the number of people leaving happy and relieved was no different.

They must be wasting millions.

38cody

How have the children managed at the assessment they have every three years? And how the hell do they get £500 DLA?

I recently commented on another thread...DH has recently undergone assessment to go from DLA to PIP..he is 67 with multiple health issues....he was wracked with anxiety over it due to reading about other people being declared fit but after a home assessment we heard within two weeks, we were told it could be six...he was given both high rates..ours was a positive experience.
As for the epilepsy and MH sufferers it could be a different ball game...

lalala interesting. I applied for PIP as I am autistic.

My report came back basically saying that, as I had talked appropriately to the assessor, I have no communication difficulties. They even have me down as making good eye contact (something that I NEVER do).

I naively just assumed that the DWP had contacted my psychiatrist, GP etc for reports. In any case, they seem to have completely disregarded them and based their decision solely on what the assessor saw on that day- I don't even remember discussing how often I have difficulties. Unfortunately the whole thing was too stressful for me to consider appealing- I guess that is another thing that they rely on to keep costs down!

I am disgusted but unsurprised by this. The Tories, and those that vote for them, don't believe the state should support individuals.

People who would require any sort of state assistance should just fuck off and die. It's simply a continuation of austerity measures. The state apparently can't afford to support people, so the state won't.

My husband works with learning disabled adults, he says many of them would struggle to achieve the points needed to qualify.
It's an utter disgrace, but not surprising.

This is disgusting. I have two young children with autism. My youngest is four and can't talk at all. I dread to think of the system as they get older. We stopped having children after our youngest for fear of having another child with autism. Maybe the state need to look at childcare costs and why people are better off on benefits than working. Or potentially capping child benefit at 2/3 children. To take away from the vulnerable is disgusting. There would be uproar if a Tory member physically was seen taking money from a disabled person so why should this be any different?

I have a son who has asd and learning difficulties and these changes scare the life out of me. At the moment he is 5 so receives dla, currently at the highest rates. I am terrified that when we get to the point of applying for Pip when he is 16 he would qualify for anything. The government really hate disabled people.

Whilst there are genuine problems with sickness and disability benefits, there's a lot of misunderstanding and confusion in this thread.

These amended regulations clarify a badly drafted bit of law where no one could agree exactly what it meant so different decision makers were making different decisions. That's not fair to anyone.

I disagree that the changes will exclude people with dementia from the mobility component.

I would be unfit for manual jobs, but have nearly always been capable of working. There are lots of people incapable of doing their old job, but capable of some work.

I would encourage anyone getting a decision they don't like to look at the criteria, and if they think they qualify, to ask for mandatory reconsideration and then appeal if that doesn't work.

This makes me so angry Helena. Talk about picking on the most vulnerable again.
I applied for help with my Dd who has some issues but I was turned down for a reason. I questioned it and reapplied proving said point.
They then turned me down for a different reason. We could live without the money. (*£20 ish as only wanted lower rate) even though pull ups are expensive so left it.
But others are not so lucky and shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get help.
My SIL is bipolar and they have had major problems with this too.

It's a strange system. I know someone who's just been awarded it for Adult ADHD and didn't even have to attend an assessment yet I've known others with far greater impairments be turned down.

I wondered how long it would take for some numpty to comment about an 'I know someone screwing the system' scenario.
Honestly the whole dla/pip is made so fucking difficult, I am amazed anyone is able to bluff their way through to all this money.
It boils my piss and makes me so worried for the future of my 2 children with asd. The governments attitude towards disability is sickening.

It's a disgrace and people will die or suffer extreme hardship because of it. I am ashamed to live in a society that won't protect its most vulnerable but will pay for more nuclear weapons and tax cuts for corporations.