To be upset by the work clique

[Chocolatecake12]

I suppose I'm old enough to know that iabu but just wondered what others take on this situation was and how would handle it going forward.
I'm a part of a small department at work, 12 of us in total including my boss.
I was under the impression that we all got on well and we've had a couple of work 'dos' Christmas for example and a cinema trip etc
Today I find out that 7/8 members have their own clique going on. They've got a whatsapp group and regularly meet for coffee or afternoon tea.
I'm upset as I felt that I was a part of the team, I've spoken to people about things going on in my life and offered advice when asked to others but feel really excluded. It's like when I was at school and not being a part of the popular girls!
Seeing this written down it sounds petty doesn't it? But I'm actually quite upset by this.

They made friends with each other, they don't have to include everyone. It's not school, you don't have to be invite everyone along to be nice!

It's not nice to exclude someone, to the extent that they start a thread on MN.

It's a known fact that a lot workplaces are very ageist.

There is a big difference between knowing you are not friends with people and finding out you are not friends. I wonder why the WhatsApp group and coffee meeting were mentioned to the OP at all?

If it was just OP, she would have a point. But its not, its only slightly over half of the work group.

It's frankly ridiculous to suggest that people can't make friends at work without inviting everyone along no matter whether they actually get on or not.

I have recently left a job because of cliquey excluding behaviour, and it was starting to affect my (already fragile) mental health as I was excluded from everything!

I think it's really nasty to just leave one or two people out of everything. I understand, and accept that people do feel more connected with some people more than they do towards others, and that people do form friendship groups, but when you are continually left out of everything, and people are talking about private online conversations they've had and just alluding to things but not coming out and saying what they're referring to, it gets upsetting and hurtful.

The thing that pissed me off the most was that the manager was aware of the cliquey nasty behaviour but didn't dare pull the ringleaders up on their behaviour as they were so gobby and full of themselves. It also hurt that new people would instantly be welcomed into the clique and invited to anything and everything whilst I was overlooked.

They were a vile bunch of cunts and I feel much much better now I have left that workplace. It's a shame as it was a good job that I excelled at (sales based), but I just couldn't take their behaviour any longer!

It is a clique how can 8 women out of 12 be so close and have so much in common, that they can't possibly extend the invite to the other 4 employees. Could totally understand a smaller group forming a friendship circle but not that number.
sailor I imagine that the work friendship you're describing is very much out in the open and you know exactly where you stand. it wasn't in the ops case, she probably feels deceived as well as hurt by the rejection. But I think other commenters are correct in saying remain professional and keep out if it.

I'd put them on the spot and just ask them about it.

Actuallu no, it wasn't out in the open but one day they mentioned going to one's house for drinks. I didn't care.

A whatsapp group isn't secretive, if they had come in and flaunted their group chats and meetings to the point of being nasty I'd agree with the OP. However, they've still socialised with everyone in work, are friendly to the OP and just so happen to have their own whatsapp chat and go out for coffee. Miles apart.

sailor I think another commenter said it better . There's a big difference between knowing you're not friends than finding out you're not friends . If you were not bothered then that's because you were never under any illusion.

From a PP It is a clique how can 8 women out of 12 be so close and have so much in common, that they can't possibly extend the invite to the other 4 employees.

A working group doesn't have to stick together at all times - they are allowed to develop friendships. The OP is not being excluded at work.

OP, you've only found out about this today. You don't have any real idea how many are in the group or how many times they have been out! I can understand that your pride feels a bit dented but don't catastrophise it into being hated. They clearly don't hate you, you get on fine with them in work and you've been out with them before. They haven't changed how they interact with you at work.

What Pringlecat said.
Colleagues are colleagues and very seldom become your besties. Workmates come and go best to just stay friendly but not over involved. you may be able to be a good friend with one or maybe two colleagues, but a whole group of seven or eight is silly. You feel left out now but you are far wiser to keep your distance and just carry on being friendly and professional.

If I were the OP and genuinely liked these women and had previously had no vibe from them that they didn't like me, I would probably assume that it was some informal group that had grown as more people found out about it and that didn't include all members of the team because they specifically wanted to meet as friends, not work colleagues discussing mainly work, so had avoided setting it up formally as a group of all 12, instead letting it grow organically as they found out who was interested in friendship rather than just being friendly work colleagues. Perhaps the OP comes across as very professional, so they didn't think she would be interested in some outside-work friendship group with them. Perhaps a colleague mentioning the group was a way of signalling that she could express an interest in joining it if she wanted to. Or perhaps not! My general feeling about work colleagues has always been that large groups of them becoming very matey outside of work can spell trouble, so I would probably opt to remain out of such a big group even if I had the choice.

Thank you so much for all your replies. It's very interesting hearing others stories and different view points.
Just to clarify I'm the same age as a couple of other members of the group. It's not because I'm older than them all.
I really did feel as though I was close friends with a couple of them in particular - now I'm obviously questioning that maybe I like them more than they like me!
I'm not a confrontational person so the idea of just asking them about it terrifies me.
I will just carry on as normal and try not to be too hurt by this.
I have other friends outside of work who are my real friends. And great family so I'm very lucky.
And mumsnet as my favourite sounding board.
Thank you

Actually, I would definitely opt out of it. It would feel wrong for so many work colleagues to be meeting up together like that - bitching about work would be bound to come up in conversation and it would feel exceptionally cliquey to me!

allbally actually I'd say we are work friends and all know some fairly intimate details about each other. However those 5 just so happy to be closer friends. It's how life works.

sailor which is fine because you know exactly where you stand and were never under any illusion. The op has just had her eyes opened and now knows where she stands.

Hopefully the upset is temporary and the op can now move forward with this new found knowledge and adjust her expectations of these women accordingly.

OP, I understand where you are coming from. We have something like this going on where I work. I personally don't care, because I don't like the 'leaders' and don't want to socialise with them out of work. They have a 'secret' whatsapp group, set up by the office mean girls, where they discuss office politics and bitch about colleagues.

Our office has a history of toxic behaviour unfortunately, that is never properly tackled, so I can see this getting out of hand and I am glad not to be a part of it.

If work friends are constantly in contact on whatsapp and meeting up outside work as well, what on earth do they have to talk about at work?

I love having a more compartmented life, and would also choose to not be part of the clique.

I don't understand why so many posters on mn are so quick to label friend groups "cliques", label the members "nasty bitches" assume it will all implode anyway etc etc.

It strikes me that the people who think like this have never really been good friends with anyone and don't understand how friendship works.

You can't dictate or script who should or shouldn't be pals, that really is insane.

Sounds like a clique to me. That kind of thing should be guarded against at work. Even if the chosen 8 are best buddies, why can't they invite everyone even if they know they might not come? That's what we would do at my work. Liking some more than others is bound to happen, but is not a reason to exclude people.

If a specific friendship develops between 2-3 people that's fine but should be conducted outside of work and not used to make people feel left out. A close friendship between 8 that needs to exclude 4 others sounds very unlikely unless a specific shared hobby.

Magzmarsh - In my case I would say it's because of experience, I have seen this sort of behaviour happen time and time again the workplace. I don't get involved and don't want to form friendships with them. And I do have very good and close friends btw.

YANBU. I would be upset too. Almost everywhere I have worked, there have been cliques; I usually try to stay away from them. My friendship group is always outside work.

I have been on the outside of these cliques many times (by choice!) and I have seen them crumble before my very eyes, sometimes within months. One by one, each of the women (it's always women!) approaches me slating the others, and it turns nasty very quickly. (I'm not in the clique(s) so they trust me!)

I agree with the folk saying 'stay away from the cliques!' Keep your friendship group away from work; I do, and I don't like to have friends in my neighbourhood either. I am friendly and will happily chat to people in passing, and will do people favours if they ask, but if you get too friendly with people, who you work with or live very close to, it can be very difficult if the friendship breaks down or turns sour or you start to get sick of them.

I am currently in the middle of trying to unfriend a very annoying woman who lives 10 minutes walk away from me who latched onto me several years ago, by keeping her at arm's length, and she does not seem to be getting the message! When they are closeby (or at your workplace!) it's very hard to move away when the friendship starts to go sour.

We have one of these in work, it's more of a 'they've all been there forever' group. One of the clique left for a new job not long ago and she sent one card to her wonderful colleagues and another to her wonderful friends...

Seems weird that it's most of the office though, I doubt it's anything personal but I'd be annoyed about it. Are you close to anyone in particular?

Magzmarsh - it strikes me you don't know what you are talking about. It is perfectly possible to have close friendships without digging gangs of eight. You are seldom going to get a group of eight women who all like each other equally and don't ever try to exclude those they are less keen on and try to get others to go along with them on that. And you will always as a result in large groups have a dynamic where there are leaders and followers and underlying hurt feelings which bubble up from time to time. If it's close friendships you want, you don't hang out in eightsomes. A group of eight meeting occasionally for coffee and afternoon tea is not an incredibly close friendship group that couldn't possibly tolerate another work colleague or two, because they aren't "proper friends" like the other eight - unless it's a clique.

YABVU. Are they being unpleasant to you? If not, then their friendship is nothing to do with you.